tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post1428059774358132461..comments2023-10-30T09:03:07.163-07:00Comments on California High Speed Rail Blog: Obama Announces HSR Funding PlanRobert Cruickshankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-63619012563064028802009-04-26T20:07:00.000-07:002009-04-26T20:07:00.000-07:00"Doesn't look good. It seems pretty clear that act..."Doesn't look good. It seems pretty clear that actual HSR will be getting quite a bit less than what they were hoping for."<br /><br />As an incrementalist, I think it looks great.<br /><br />Remember that the biggest gains to runtime for trains come from eliminating the slowest segments. If you have a "high speed rail" line running at whizbang 125 mph speeds in the countryside, which has to crawl at 20 mph for the last 60 miles into Chicago and the last 100 miles into NY, you'd have done better with an "emerging HSR" line which runs at 90 mph the WHOLE WAY.<br /><br />Accordingly, stuff like the South of the Lake Reroute to get in and out of Chicago fast, elimination of single-track bottlenecks, replacement of 5 mph bridges (Toledo, Ohio comes to mind), and so forth are the best possible way to get faster, more reliable train service.<br /><br />California should really ask for money to finish the project-level EIRs for the grade-separated, electrified Metrolink/HSR route from LA Union Station to the Antelope Valley. This can be done a few projects at a time, is far less controversial than the San Francisco end, and has immediate benefits as well as being part of HSR.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-60786083130284281772009-04-17T16:03:00.000-07:002009-04-17T16:03:00.000-07:00Devil's Advocate said...
"$8 bln. is enough to bui...Devil's Advocate said...<br />"<I>$8 bln. is enough to build 500 miles, based on the current average cost experienced by Spain and France.</I>" ...<br /><br />Oh, it'll build a lot more than 500 miles, since its not going to be restricted to "Express HSR", aka bullet trains, but will also include "Regional and Emerging HSR", aka Rapid Rail.<br /><br />The Ohio application will be for $0.25b to get the Triple-C corridor back into operation ... as a conventional rail system with a plan in place to upgrade to an Emerging Rail HSR system along an alignment that yadda yadda yadda. That's 222 miles line of sight, so I'd guess somewhere between 250 to 300 route miles.<br /><br />Chicago to Saint Louis will surely be less than $0.75b, that's 262m line of sight. So those two would be 500m for under $1b.<br /><br />My first guess when the $8b was announced was $2b for Cali, $2b for the NEC, $4b spread around the balance of the corridors. In round figures, that still looks quite plausible. $4b for "Emerging/Regional" HSR, aka Rapid Rail, would well over a thousand route miles.BruceMcFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08502035881761277885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-8945993441592490012009-04-17T15:45:00.000-07:002009-04-17T15:45:00.000-07:00Highway after an earthquake:
http://earthquake.us...Highway after an earthquake:<br /><br />http://earthquake.usgs.gov/regional/nca/3Dgeologic/Cypress_LCluff.html<br /><br />I like to post these random things, I really don't know why. But if I did have a point, clearly it would be that we should never build any land-based transportation infrastructure at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-2224067483830765422009-04-17T12:59:00.000-07:002009-04-17T12:59:00.000-07:00They have chosen people with a lot of experience.They have chosen people with a lot of experience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-9584219792791121662009-04-17T12:56:00.000-07:002009-04-17T12:56:00.000-07:00A good article about who has been named to the rev...A good article about who has been named to the reveiw board.<br />Governor Schwarzenegger Urges Federal Investment In California's High-Speed Rail<br />http://www.imperialvalleynews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5212&Itemid=1Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-71828651285920967842009-04-17T11:17:00.000-07:002009-04-17T11:17:00.000-07:00Why should California taxpayers support highways a...Why should California taxpayers support highways and other projects<br />in states with no passenger rail?<br />BECAUSE it a nation.YesonHSRnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-59621365161215067572009-04-17T10:03:00.000-07:002009-04-17T10:03:00.000-07:00Brandon, that's right, hardly any of the $8 billio...Brandon, that's right, hardly any of the $8 billion has been apportioned. That will come through the process the HSR Strategic Plan lays out, and the first decisions will not be made until the fall.Robert Cruickshankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-89304906612900366572009-04-17T10:00:00.000-07:002009-04-17T10:00:00.000-07:00rail road tracks after earthquake.
Anonymous, yo...<I>rail road tracks after earthquake</I>. <br /><br />Anonymous, you do realize that technology has advanced since 1906, right? <br /><br /> Japan has been running HSR for over forty years, with only <B>one</B> derailment caused by an earthquake and <A HREF="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQQ/is_12_44/ai_n8578303/" REL="nofollow">no serious injuries</A>.Biancahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00660718116529125977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-7661585443424383472009-04-17T09:36:00.000-07:002009-04-17T09:36:00.000-07:00http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/...http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2009/04/17/BAS91737GT.DTL&o=12<br /><br />rail road tracks after earthquake.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-78244704034257951572009-04-17T09:25:00.000-07:002009-04-17T09:25:00.000-07:00$8 bln. is enough to build 500 miles, based on the...$8 bln. is enough to build 500 miles, based on the current average cost experienced by Spain and France. It's a start. It is obvious that the majority of the resources should come from the State. Why should taxpayers nationwide, contribute, through the Federal Government, to a project that will primarily benefit Californians?Devil's Advocanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-5892084019931594272009-04-17T09:08:00.000-07:002009-04-17T09:08:00.000-07:00Well all I can say is WONDERFUL.
I never thought I...Well all I can say is WONDERFUL.<br />I never thought I would see the day an American President would have a news conference on building HSR.and just think if Mccain had won?YesonHSRnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-13857625943184051282009-04-17T00:50:00.000-07:002009-04-17T00:50:00.000-07:00For example, Las Vegas could be added as an eligib...<I>For example, Las Vegas could be added as an eligible destination on the California "HSR express" network to nix a parallel effort on maglev plus the Ivanpah relief airport.</I>I don't think anyone needs to "nix" Anaheim-Vegas Maglev, unless Harry Reid somehow, through a series of slapstick hijinks, becomes supreme Il Duce. He's a pretty vocal caucus of one on the issue. His state can't even successfully fight the taxi and limousine lobby to allow the Vegas monorail to built out to the airport, and give it a fighting chance to make a profit.<br /><br />And, given the current CAHSR plans, shooting a spur out to Vegas seems like a slam dunk compared to building a Maglev line.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570027785365903956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-84419603904450869082009-04-17T00:27:00.000-07:002009-04-17T00:27:00.000-07:00In the very far off future, I can imagine ~110 mph...<I>In the very far off future, I can imagine ~110 mph service on the coast and 200+ mph service through the central valley.</I>I dunno, Santa Barbara to downtown LA in an hour sounds pretty cool, but should every small coastal city eventually turn into a suburb for wealthy commuters to the nearest megalopolis? The coast is always going to be "the scenic route" vs. the central valley corridor. If we can get decent on-time performance from the Coast Starlight, that would be better I think.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570027785365903956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-85642169405092513322009-04-16T23:57:00.000-07:002009-04-16T23:57:00.000-07:00It was great to hear the Obama speech.
I am cur...It was great to hear the Obama speech. <br /><br />I am curious... some of the comments above cite that California was given the shaft... saying that the state will only get a small portion of the $8 billion. Apparently some figure was cited; $100 million?<br /><br />Is that right?<br /><br />Can someone reference how much of the $8 billion was apportioned today? And of that, what portion went to California?<br /><br />My understanding is that the Federal DOT is recieving comments about how the funds shall be apportioned with criteria to be released later in the year. Today's announcement was an early release of a portion of the $8 billion.<br /><br />And therefore, the apportioning of the $8 billionis not over with. Additionally, there will be other Federal funds to follow.<br /><br />With that said, state's are encouraged to provide financial support too. To that end, California does that in spades. Beyond the $10 billion in 1A bond funds, this states already has an intercity rail program for capital and operating activities. It's substantial too. Not every state can say that... let alone to the extent that California can.Brandon in Californiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14796810137823230737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-65728137047280960272009-04-16T23:48:00.000-07:002009-04-16T23:48:00.000-07:00one thing about the incremental upgrades to servic...one thing about the incremental upgrades to service around the nation is that it captures a whole new generation of rail users show are open to further investment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-17741439127117835382009-04-16T22:48:00.000-07:002009-04-16T22:48:00.000-07:00I agree with Alon. I think a proper peer review wo...I agree with Alon. I think a proper peer review would involve bringing in some people from outside California. Like from someplace where they actually have high speed rail: France, Japan, Spain, Germany. Might not hurt to have someone from Amtrak's NEC operation either, to provide an American perspective on higher-speed electric railroad construction and operations.crzwdjkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394805356595604336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-22284089218639899842009-04-16T21:54:00.000-07:002009-04-16T21:54:00.000-07:00This is some strange peer-review. When I submit pa...This is some strange peer-review. When I submit papers for publication, they are reviewed by the relevant experts in the field they're in, not by politicians. Shouldn't a peer review committee properly consist of people with experience in engineering, design, and railroad management?Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-29128046291107384492009-04-16T18:26:00.000-07:002009-04-16T18:26:00.000-07:00@ resident -
from what I gather, the peer review ...@ resident -<br /><br />from what I gather, the peer review committee consists entirely of appointees from the executive branch.<br /><br />Its purpose is evidently to perform quality control of CHSRA's processes and in particular, the documents they intend to submit to the state legislature whenever they want to begin construction on a new segment. In addition, their job would be to monitor CHSRA's tender processes, including specification docs and vendor evaluation process.<br /><br />What concerns me is are two things:<br /><br />a) the committee consists of an even number of members, which means there could be deadlock. Mind you, the state legislature would probably have reservations about appropriating construction funds for a segment whose documentation was not considered ship-shape by the quality control folks.<br /><br />b) the positions are honorary, yet the committee is supposed to review planning, engineering, financing and other aspects. That's actually a huge task, especially on the engineering aspects. At the very least, the committee will need funds to bring in their own outside experts to do the double-checking required for proper quality control.<br /><br />In addition, document and business process quality control takes time, so document preparation should proceed in stages such that quality control of stage A can be executed in parallel with document creation for stage B. Otherwise, you end up with wait states. Of course, if there's a major boo-boo in stage A, that would force some backtracking but then, catching errors is what quality control is for.Rafaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05471957286484454765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-66233685587085193992009-04-16T16:50:00.000-07:002009-04-16T16:50:00.000-07:00http://www.imperialvalleynews.com/index.php?option...http://www.imperialvalleynews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5212&Itemid=1<br /><br />peer review appointments...residentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-21218892565140174382009-04-16T16:29:00.000-07:002009-04-16T16:29:00.000-07:00This quote from a Boston Globe article about the H...This quote from a Boston Globe article about the HSR plan (and how it relates to New England) may be of some interest:<br /><br /><I>Separately, Massachusetts Democratic Senator John Kerry announced yesterday that he would soon introduce legislation allowing the government to sell tax-exempt bonds to finance high-speed rail. </I>mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-35226601381269055162009-04-16T16:08:00.000-07:002009-04-16T16:08:00.000-07:00Since the plan seems to be a combination of Federa...Since the plan seems to be a combination of Federal/State funds, seems the big advantage CA has is you've just got to convince the voters of one state to get behind it. Ditto the TX T-bone, but the voters haven't backed it yet.<br /><br />From a straight economics perspective (and without running any detailed numbers), the Chicago Hub network looks attractive though. Lots of large and medium-sized cities, relatively closely spaced, plenty of existing rail infrastructure, including unused ROW, land which is largely both flat and cheap - not to mention a pretty doable tie-in to the Northeast system through PA in the future.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570027785365903956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-71768121848871322852009-04-16T15:55:00.000-07:002009-04-16T15:55:00.000-07:00What does the program mean for Capitol Corridor an...What does the program mean for Capitol Corridor and Metrolink? I completely support CAHSR and all, but going back to your post a few days ago, investing say, 250 million apiece of the initial 8 billion and another 75 million apiece per year into these corridors would make an immediate impact in revolutionizing their service.Daniel Jacobsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17133054732320097319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-90605983959810200602009-04-16T15:16:00.000-07:002009-04-16T15:16:00.000-07:00@ Eric, Jason, Robert Cruickshank -
that map hasn...@ Eric, Jason, Robert Cruickshank -<br /><br />that map hasn't been updated since 2002. It's not up to USDOT to change it, only an act of Congress can do that.<br /><br />Now that HSR is a real national policy with real money behind it, I fully expect Congress will update it in the context of the next surface transportation bill (or sooner, if need be). For example, the current map does not include the LA-San Diego leg via Riverside.<br /><br />I also expect the map will be refined in terms of the new HSR sub-categories and, that selecte links between them corridors, a few extensions and a couple of new ones be added to the list of those eligible in principle.<br /><br />For example, Las Vegas could be added as an eligible destination on the California "HSR express" network to nix a parallel effort on maglev plus the Ivanpah relief airport. Obama wants to wean the country off oil and planes guzzle more per passenger-mile than other transportation modes <I>at the same seat capacity utilization</I>, especially on short hop flights.<br /><br />Instead, Nevada should focus on producing and exporting renewable electricity to California. A joint DOT/DOE feasibility study on marrying electric rail and HVDC distribution lines in combo EIR/EIS corridor studies would make a whole lot of sense.<br /><br />Robert already mentioned the Texas T-bone. Expect the Rocky Mountain states to make a bid for a rapid rail line centered on Denver. Arizona may take a shine to the idea of a Phoenix-Tucson link - the state is moving toward swing status.<br /><br />Canada may respond to today's news by taking a second look at Windsor-Quebec City, starting with Toronto-Montreal. Extending the Cascades corridor to Vancouver would also make sense. In all of these cases, cross-border trains would stop at very few stations, as each one would be a point of entry (cp Eurostar).<br /><br />In addition, Canadian and US officials would need to co-operate on technical standards. Note that the <A HREF="http://cahsr.blogspot.com/2009/04/swedens-gr-t-green-train.html" REL="nofollow">Swedes</A>, Norwegians and now the Russians all have expertise in actually operating rapid rail ("HSR regional") in arctic conditions. The reference to interoperable PTC and mixed traffic is extremely important in that context, as it will make it much easier to leverage those nations' experience.Rafaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05471957286484454765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-40321145965011775882009-04-16T14:45:00.000-07:002009-04-16T14:45:00.000-07:00There are numerous comments here that express disa...There are numerous comments here that express disappointment over the speech today, especially in regards to California not receiving enough money. Keep in mind the stimulus bill was meant to stimulate the economy. The fact that it will also stimulate HSR is just a side benefit. After all, John Maynard Keynes, the economist who developed the notion of using government money to stimulate a flagging economy once said, "The government should pay people to dig holes in the ground and then fill them up." He responded to critics by saying, "Fine, pay them to build schools. The point is it doesn't matter what they do as long as the government is creating jobs".<br /><br />The CHSRA has an excellent project on their hands, but it is expensive and will take a long time to complete. It is a worthwhile endeavor, but there are many small improvements that offer excellent cost benefit ratios and can be built quickly. Keep in mind our rail system has been neglected and that <I>true</I> HSR will one day be <I>just</I> the backbone to that system; we need both. I laud Obama for his, "first step."<br /><br />For similar insight, visit <A HREF="http://switchingmodes.wordpress.com/" REL="nofollow">SwitchingModes</A>.Brian Tylerhttp://switchingmodes.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-75349213591845460852009-04-16T14:38:00.000-07:002009-04-16T14:38:00.000-07:00What Jason said. Back in 2000 when these corridors...What Jason said. Back in 2000 when these corridors were being developed the coastal route for our HSR project hadn't yet been ruled out. Although maybe this can enable the coast route for some stimulus money to get the Coast Daylight up and running? I won't argue!<br /><br />Of course, the map ought to be updated to reflect the Texas T-Bone project.Robert Cruickshankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.com