tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post3896117472257955126..comments2023-10-30T09:03:07.163-07:00Comments on California High Speed Rail Blog: Virgin California?Robert Cruickshankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-64640454012219238232009-03-01T15:13:00.000-08:002009-03-01T15:13:00.000-08:00anon @ 11:40The googleplex is nowhere near the mou...anon @ 11:40<BR/>The googleplex is nowhere near the mountain view caltrain station. The 101 is a far more significant source of noise. And that is not a problem for meetings either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-18260887917782741122009-02-27T14:54:00.000-08:002009-02-27T14:54:00.000-08:00SNCF says it is already involved in the project:TG...SNCF says it is already involved in the project:<BR/><BR/><BR/>TGV California<BR/>08/12/15<BR/><BR/>http://www.sncf.com/en_EN/html/media/CH0001-Corporate/BR0625-TGV-California/MD0005_20081215-Read-article.html<BR/><BR/>TGV San Diego-Sacramento : "yes we can"<BR/><BR/>California approved via referendum the construction of a high-speed train between San Diego and Sacramento. A "yes" dictated by environmental issues.<BR/><BR/>The end of cars and planes only era in the United States? A strong signal is coming from the west coast in any case. Last November 4, California citizens voted via referendum for a high-speed train line between San Diego and Sacramento. Over 1,200 km. Los Angeles will only be 2 hours and 20 minutes from San Francisco.<BR/><BR/>Twelve years in the making and pushed back several times, this project - the largest ever undertaken by the state of California - is of great interest to SNCF. The company is already involved in the project. Systra, a joint subsidiary of SNCF and RATP, has been entrusted with several preliminary studies.<BR/><BR/>The "yes" voiced by Californians for the TGV resonates as a victory for the environmental movement. Between 88 and 117 million travellers are expected between when it opens and 2030. California, which is preparing for a demographic explosion of more than 50% in the next 20 years, intends to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions to its 1990 levels by the year 2020, and then to reduce them to 20% of this level by 2050.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-3232079666480243622009-02-27T12:38:00.000-08:002009-02-27T12:38:00.000-08:00High speed trains run at 120 mph (i.e. reduced spe...High speed trains run at 120 mph (i.e. reduced speed) through every built-up suburban area in Japan and Western Europe. <BR/><BR/>The Peninsula is practically rural compared to the density of some of these areas. And many of them (western suburbs of Tokyo, Islington North London where Tony Blair lived) are as nice as anywhere on the Peninsula.<BR/><BR/>The arrogant exceptionalism and bombasticism of the Palo Alto ranters here ought to be embarrassing. You own a valuable house. Congratulations, it doesn't make you a person whose whims must be catered to.<BR/><BR/>HSR will in the long run only increase the value of your house. If I were unfortunate enough to live in Palo Alto I'd be spending all my free time lobbying for a station. Beats trying to invest in this market.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-35937828083301150412009-02-27T12:32:00.000-08:002009-02-27T12:32:00.000-08:00Anon's shenanigans are really making me hate Palo ...Anon's shenanigans are really making me hate Palo Altans. <BR/><BR/>What an arrogant little community -- they expect to dump everything unsightly (landfill, IKEA, office parks, trains, service workers) on neighboring communities and preserve their pristine little enclave of ugly two million dollar ranch homes at any cost.<BR/><BR/>That time back in the 90s when East Palo Alto threatened to shut down their police department so that PA would pay for the services they benefit from -- that was hilarious and well deserved.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-88782934365387944182009-02-26T20:37:00.000-08:002009-02-26T20:37:00.000-08:00Nym! It's nym! PseudoNYM! not pseudoname! NYM! NYM...Nym! It's nym! PseudoNYM! not pseudoname! NYM! NYM! NYM! PseudoNYM!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-22827112911467100142009-02-26T17:58:00.000-08:002009-02-26T17:58:00.000-08:00Btw, here's a link to a wikipedia article about th...Btw, here's a link to a wikipedia article about the station.<BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_StationAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-87271865539829469502009-02-26T17:57:00.000-08:002009-02-26T17:57:00.000-08:00I just wanted to throw something out here -- when ...I just wanted to throw something out here -- when I visited Tokyo, my hotel was located in an upper end neighborhood near the Tokyo Station. In fact, my hotel was only 5 blocks away. The tracks leading up to the station (which included metro, regional, and HSR trains) were built on a kind of elevated ground, like a reverse trench or something. The business district has been flourishing because of the location of the rail line. In fact, where the roads pass under the ROW, shops have actually opened up and in a few segment of this ROW, there's actually like a small shopping center underneath. The psychological presence of the railway seemed conducive to commercial development even when there wasn't even a subway station within close proximity.<BR/><BR/>This obviously isn't the exact model that CAHSR will be using but a lot of the concept is the same. It should be noted that the bullet trains were not moving at top speed in this area, nor in the suburban area. Nor would the CAHSR trains. What Tokyo does show us is that HSR does not hurt the local neighborhoods.<BR/><BR/>And please, for the love of god, stop using Anon. Click "Name/URL" and enter a pseudoname, just so we can identify you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-4162997998504440922009-02-26T13:49:00.000-08:002009-02-26T13:49:00.000-08:00@ anon @ 12:22pm -you're right, Caltrain isn't pla...@ anon @ 12:22pm -<BR/><BR/>you're right, Caltrain isn't planning to install any "electrocution" (sic) lines that will allow it to operate zero tailpipe emissions vehicles, is it?<BR/><BR/>Please remember that it was <I>your</I> decision to buy property near an already existing railroad. It was your decision to ignore the planning process and media coverage of prop 1A in the run-up to the election. Caveat emptor.<BR/><BR/>If Caltrain had been out of service, I'd understand your anger about this expansion of service. But it never was. You <I>knew</I> you were moving next to an active railroad, which means rail traffic can go up as well as down. If you didn't factor that into the purchase price of your home, don't expect taxpayers to bail you out by paying through the nose for a four-bore tunnel through suburbia.<BR/><BR/>Post-electrification, Caltrain will be running more trains than ever before but they'll be <I>much</I> quieter thanks to the absence of bells and train horns. Noise events will also be shorter due to the higher operating speeds. Both Caltrain and HSR will be running on continuously welded track, so there won't be any clackety-clacking.<BR/><BR/>Plus, CHSRA is open to all vendors at this point. The Japanese arguably have the best handle on rail-wheel noise issues because their culture abhors noise. In addition, some of the shinkansen lines run 15-20 trains per hour (tph). Drivers are expected to implement the schedule down to a couple of seconds(!) because delays would have severe knock-on effects for operations later in the day.<BR/><BR/>In California, HSR will have to build ridership first. I'd be surprised if they can reliably fill seats for more than 4-6 tph in the first few years of operation. And those would be single-level half-length trains with perhaps 350-400 seats.<BR/><BR/>A full-length bi-level HSR train has well over 1000 seats but it will be a good long while before anyone runs those in California. SNCF and JR only introduced bi-level designs once lines approached their tph capacity, which is determined by emergency braking distance.<BR/><BR/>Even then, California simply isn't Japan, the population density is not as high. HSR will provide a very useful medium-distance transportation alternative, but it's unlikely that trains will be running at 3-5 minute headways anytime in the foreseeable future.Rafaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05471957286484454765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-52388514692546418962009-02-26T13:46:00.000-08:002009-02-26T13:46:00.000-08:00Before reading this blog I had quite a bit of symp...Before reading this blog I had quite a bit of sympathy for the residents of Menlo Park and Palo Alto. However, after reading the bizarre comments made by a few, I'm kind of hoping they lose, and soon. It seems an argument can be made for mitigating impacts from an upgraded rail line, but if the people on here are any indication of the thoughts of those local residents----yikes. The rhetoric certainly turns me away from any sympathy and all of the threats seem childish.<BR/><BR/>It doesn't seem like anyone can explain how on Earth a grade separated line with slightly faster trains could in any way be worse than what's there now. If you read only what the residents have to say you'd think the plan was to build a whole new rail line!? There's already a rail line, with stinky, loud trains rolling down it all day long. This doesn't even pass the common sense test. Thank you to the residents of Menlo Park and Palo Alto and their rhetoric for making me a firm supporter of HSR on the peninsula.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-84681426878258328022009-02-26T12:56:00.000-08:002009-02-26T12:56:00.000-08:00No its 3 or 4 nimbys like you doing all the scream...No its 3 or 4 nimbys like you doing all the screaming..AND your right Palo Alto is a world class destination with the medical center<BR/>ect..its not that SMALL Town you keep harping about. A station on the HSR is just what is needed for such an important city.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-60716603891690901202009-02-26T12:42:00.000-08:002009-02-26T12:42:00.000-08:00@Alon Levy: Cut the urban planning sludge. This i...@Alon Levy: Cut the urban planning sludge. This is PALO ALTO we are talking about, an international destination that is the corporate startup and high tech capital of the world.<BR/><BR/>If you are suggesting that this train has the moxie or ability to "relocate" Stanford and Palo Alto, I suggest you go take a cold shower, and ponder what would happen if this train went right through Beverly Hills.<BR/><BR/>If you are assuming there is one troll blasting this project on every website, your assumption is wrong. This is generating a widespread community uproar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-22644056453814013872009-02-26T12:35:00.000-08:002009-02-26T12:35:00.000-08:00France doesn't have the same division of good scho...France doesn't have the same division of good school districts and bad school districts as in the US. Schools are funded nationally, so in principle it doesn't matter whether you live in Paris proper or in the housing projects in the suburbs.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-11260767625036400702009-02-26T12:33:00.000-08:002009-02-26T12:33:00.000-08:00Trains run elevated in Tokyo, too. Tokyo Station, ...Trains run elevated in Tokyo, too. Tokyo Station, which is located right in the center of town, is elevated.<BR/><BR/>Four-star restaurants and top public schools are symptoms of gated communities, again. The reason the Peninsula has top public schools is that the school district boundaries are drawn to only include high-income areas; this ensures an ample supply of tax money to run the school and rich kids whose parents would ensure they'd succeed anywhere. These are barely even public schools - their per student spending is on a par with private schools, but instead of "tuition" they call the fee a "property tax." They're certainly as exclusive. And like any other schools, they can move, as Stuyvesant in New York has once every few decades.<BR/><BR/>The point Jacobs made is that the intact community has some value in itself. So far what you're telling me is that the people within the community have high value, but that's not the same. Top schools, top restaurants (which really means top chefs, who can move even more easily than schools), and high tax revenue are all features of people, not the ties between people. High property values are a feature of a community, but there's nothing inherently desirable about them, except to real estate speculators.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-72882074990865436782009-02-26T12:31:00.000-08:002009-02-26T12:31:00.000-08:00@mike: Right, the best parisian neighborhoods fea...@mike: Right, the best parisian neighborhoods feature high speed rail tracks overhead, 30 feet away from the residents, where local schools feature towering, roaring high speed rail lines as a feature of the high quality of life. Bustin' a gut here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-27698154110184691592009-02-26T12:22:00.001-08:002009-02-26T12:22:00.001-08:00Anon @ 10:23:So your argument is basically "We wer...Anon @ 10:23:<BR/><BR/>So your argument is basically "We were too stupid to understand what we were voting for, please excuse us."<BR/><BR/>Love it.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14186947428645370594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-50507979862777023882009-02-26T12:22:00.000-08:002009-02-26T12:22:00.000-08:00Jack the difference with HSR is that if you are 50...Jack the difference with HSR is that if you are 50 ft from the tracks,<BR/>- reverberation/shaking from trains will damage your foundation over time<BR/>- large quantities of dust similar to living near a freeway<BR/>- electrocution lines above and around facility, resulting environmental damage<BR/>- eyesore of a 20ft concrete structure when you look out your window<BR/><BR/>other than that, HSR is just like the caltrain (oh except it runs every few mins and caltrain runs everyhalf hour at most, once every 2 hours at least).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-78280254294798193892009-02-26T12:20:00.000-08:002009-02-26T12:20:00.000-08:00Your off topic willow glen..did you not post a ran...Your off topic willow glen..did you not post a rant the day after<BR/>Prop1A passed by 65% in area? BTW<BR/>the trees are on Railroad propertyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-74002328580073316342009-02-26T12:19:00.000-08:002009-02-26T12:19:00.000-08:00Anon:Sure, the train runs through Canton, Sharon, ...Anon:<BR/><BR/>Sure, the train runs through Canton, Sharon, the Neponset area, the Stony Brook area and several other nice suburbs outside of Boston. If you want, you can go to google maps, follow the tracks out of the city and use a street view to see all the nice houses areas around the tracks. I don't have the time to take pictures of these suburbs for you, I'm sorry, but I have better thing to do.<BR/><BR/>Things can still exist, even if there isn't a picture on the internet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-69346642621964249312009-02-26T12:18:00.000-08:002009-02-26T12:18:00.000-08:00Pierre, Anons, etc.:I believe there is substantial...Pierre, Anons, etc.:<BR/><BR/>I believe there is substantial confusion about the term "HSR". <B>The line that will be built on the Peninsula is not considered true HSR by international standards.</B> It will be operated at 125 mph, which is basically fast conventional rail for most other developed countries. The SF-SJ segment would not be classified as an LGV ("ligne à grande vitesse" = "high speed line") in France, it would not be classified as an AVE line in Spain ("alta velocidad espanola" = "Spanish high speed"), it would not be classified as a high speed line in Germany, and it would not be classified as a Shinkansen line in Japan ("Shinkansen" = "New Trunk Line"). It would be classified as what it is: an upgraded conventional line.<BR/><BR/>Once we understand that fact, the source of confusion and angst becomes clear. Pierre is correct that the 186-220 mph LGVs in France do avoid running through city centers. And if CHSRA were planning to build a 220 mph line through downtown Palo Alto, then the residents would be right to be worried! <B>But no one is proposing building a high speed line through Palo Alto.</B> What is being proposed is running a high speed train through Palo Alto <B>at upgraded conventional speeds</B>.<BR/><BR/><B>This is done throughout the world.</B> For example, check out the route that the TGV takes from Tours to Bordeaux. This is an upgraded conventional line that operates at up to 137 mph. It passes directly through the center of many small French towns that are quainter than any town on the Peninsula ever will be. And it works fine.<BR/><BR/>Getting upset that a "high speed train" may run through your neighborhood is like getting upset that your neighbor just bought an ultra luxury sedan with a top speed of 180 mph. If he actually drives at 180 mph down your street, then you should be worried. But if he operates his car at a speed that is consistent with conventional speed limits, then there is no need to worry. In fact, his car will likely be quieter than an old clunker operated at the same speeds.<BR/><BR/>Ditto for high speed trains. The fact that the train can achieve 220 mph doesn't mean it will ever come close to that speed on the Peninsula. And, at the actual speed of operation on the Peninsula, it will be quieter than the old diesel, non-grade-separated Caltrains.<BR/><BR/>I'll try to find some pictures later in the day when I have time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-86552411976401785522009-02-26T12:17:00.000-08:002009-02-26T12:17:00.000-08:00well thats nice, Kyle-Boston, you found an obscure...well thats nice, Kyle-Boston, you found an obscure article about HSR routes that certainly only garnered the interest of those closely involved with HSR at the time.<BR/><BR/>Prop 1A specified ONLY that HSR would be built, on an APPROPRIATE route. The route that was mentioned was Altamont, which was appropriate. There was no voter approval of the Caltrain peninsula route specifically. And I think you can see from the outcry NOW, that you've got the fight of your life on your hands with some of the wealthiest people in the USA. If the HSR commission tries to imply voters specifically approved the Caltrain peninsula route, then that means voters were lied to and a lawsuit is the remedy there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-92204515241969492252009-02-26T12:03:00.000-08:002009-02-26T12:03:00.000-08:00I saw that Deutsche Bahn (DB) was also a potential...I saw that Deutsche Bahn (DB) was also a potential partner that responded to the call for interest. I personally think they run the best system of trains in Europe across one of the larger (in area) countries and with the largest population. They would definitely be my preferred partner...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-46186108903624098322009-02-26T11:43:00.000-08:002009-02-26T11:43:00.000-08:00"Sorry charlie. Do not pass go. The Pacheco route,..."Sorry charlie. Do not pass go. The Pacheco route, and an OVER GROUND HSR on the caltrain tracks was not universally understood until recently which is WHY the opposition is heating up now, and I can assure you, it is heating up- EVERYWHERE."<BR/><BR/>Uh, no. I've been reading in the SJ Merc and other papers for years about the back-and-forth of the decision, and the final Pacheco decision was <A HREF="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/20/BAD9U1H3R.DTL" REL="nofollow">big</A> news well over a year ago. This was not a secret by any stretch of the imagination and a quick google search - not to mention the public record - belies this contention. Besides, it was on the <A HREF="http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/analysis/prop1a-analysis.htm" REL="nofollow">ballot</A> - to say that it was not "universally understood" is highly disingenuous.<BR/><BR/>Here's a decent site that shows the controversy over alignment and general concept in articles for a number of years (see links at bottom).<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://igs.berkeley.edu/library/htHighSpeedRail.htm" REL="nofollow">High-Speed Rail in California</A>timotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05167049606237346501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-28931990791299786072009-02-26T11:30:00.000-08:002009-02-26T11:30:00.000-08:00Well, when I lived in Vienna, the ICE from Cologne...Well, when I lived in Vienna, the ICE from Cologne arrived into Westbahnhof and all the tracks are at street level in a densely populated neighborhood. The same is also true at Munich's Hauptbahnhof, Amsterdam, Naples, Rome, Milan...all of which I've been to. I'm pretty sure Berlin and Geneva are the same way, I can't remember for sure.<BR/><BR/>I took the train once from Madrid to Pamplona in 2004, which can reach speeds of up to 200km/h and the trains running out of Atocha station were definitely at ground level in a densely populated area. <BR/><BR/>Once again, this argument about stations not being in city centers is completely absurd.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-2985515935037760632009-02-26T11:24:00.000-08:002009-02-26T11:24:00.000-08:00I own a home in Sunnyvale that's ~500ft from the h...I own a home in Sunnyvale that's ~500ft from the high speed rail, and I support the HSR. I don't see how much more noise it can make compared with caltrain.<BR/><BR/>Caltrain is loud, causes traffic jam during rush hours, polluting, and it's also SLOW.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-56528686593820847702009-02-26T11:20:00.000-08:002009-02-26T11:20:00.000-08:00You know what I find hillarious about these Mad As...You know what I find hillarious about these Mad As hell NIMBY posters: The vast majority of voters on the Penisula SUPPORTED Prop. 1A!! So they're obviously representing their own self (ish) interests; not the region as a whole. That's why a lawsuit will probably be thrown out like today's garbage. Gee, rule in favor of a couple of doomsday NIMBY's or the vast majority of citizens? You make the call.<BR/><BR/>Back on topic...VIRGIN ROCKS!Tony D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03392232221747908883noreply@blogger.com