tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post503014255361797828..comments2023-10-30T09:03:07.163-07:00Comments on California High Speed Rail Blog: Two Quick Peninsula UpdatesRobert Cruickshankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comBlogger84125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-67149303150899337822009-04-06T13:12:00.001-07:002009-04-06T13:12:00.001-07:00This project *is* dead. Where, after all, will th...This project *is* dead. Where, after all, will the tens of billions of dollars in private investment come from? Andrew, Clem, or Spokker, any of you guys want a part of this? How much of your own money would you invest? It's just a shame that $10B of taxpayer money will go down with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-43046519567907490442009-04-06T13:12:00.000-07:002009-04-06T13:12:00.000-07:00uh, @Arthur Dent, I think you need to get your sar...uh, @Arthur Dent, I think you need to get your sarcasm meter checked. We can all agree that section of tracks Andrew Bogan posted is an eyesore. <BR/><BR/><BR/><I>imagine a wall butting right up against the street</I><BR/><BR/>At this stage in the process, a wall is only one of a number of options. And if it is indeed a wall, it isn't necessarily going to be the Soviet monolith that Jim Fall produced in that video. Something with nice arches reminiscent of the quad at Stanford would not be unsightly. A trench is another possibility. A tunnel is another possibility, but that may turn out to be a Faustian bargain; tunneling is so much more expensive that above-ground options, it would almost certainly result in the development of the land above the tunnel to defray the added expense. If you don't want an arched viaduct, would you be happy with high density housing or a strip mall instead? Going back <A HREF="http://www.paloaltohistory.com/images/zschokkerailroad.jpg" REL="nofollow">the way things used to be</A> to isn't an option.Biancahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00660718116529125977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-3700699506361682052009-04-06T07:06:00.000-07:002009-04-06T07:06:00.000-07:00@Andrew BoganHere is Caltrain from Alma Street o...@Andrew Bogan<BR/><I>Here is <A HREF="http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&layer=c&cbll=37.429251,-122.141451&panoid=9fHXCe1oltrtBOILT8TMxA&cbp=12,240.158433137364,,0,1.66835699797161&msid=106548890746658627057.000466bdd840bacda20d3&ll=37.429251,-122.141451&spn=0,359.742851&z=12" REL="nofollow"> Caltrain </A> from Alma Street opposite Bowden Park. Just beautiful isn't it? </I><BR/><BR/>Not really. The area’s under construction and looks rather ugly. The construction will dwarf in comparison to the disruptive HSR project. Replace the height of the train with a wall and bring it to the edge of the street. Add a sound wall above that, and some catenaries above all that. It’ll be even uglier than the street view Google happened to capture.<BR/><BR/>Try <A HREF="http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&layer=c&cbll=37.429722,-122.141982&panoid=SmxsolFp3H8bp3H9aiC5Qw&cbp=12,240.158433137364,,0,1.66835699797161&msid=106548890746658627057.000466bdd840bacda20d3&ll=37.429615,-122.14222&spn=0,359.652214&z=12" REL="nofollow"> this view </A> instead. This is the same area without the train, which is what residents and commuters see for 90% of the day when a train isn’t part of the picture. Take a step forward and back within this street view. Look up and down the street, and imagine a wall butting right up against the street. If you're able to grasp the before-and-after affect -- <I>try</I>, I know it’s hard when you’re fixated on a particular outcome -- you can grasp what Palo Alto residents are upset about.Arthur Denthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16780821836930957657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-5021147319108095872009-04-05T16:50:00.000-07:002009-04-05T16:50:00.000-07:00Anon at April 4, 1:18 PM -LOL, the "second thought...Anon at April 4, 1:18 PM -<BR/><BR/>LOL, the "second thoughts" that you refer to in San Mateo are second thoughts about requesting a depressed (i.e., trenched or tunneled) alignment. Given the property takings necessary for a depressed alignment, the San Mateo staff are asking if the city would instead like to switch to a elevated alignment (which actually requires fewer property takings). Note that the city staff are not recommending engaging in frivolous lawsuits as one of the mitigation strategies....shocking, huh?<BR/><BR/>Clem is absolutely right here: San Mateo is <B>by far</B> the most difficult case along the Peninsula, and the San Mateo staff are doing a much more competent job on this whole thing than, say, the Palo Alto staff (e.g., they are actually scoping and analyzing all feasible alignments rather than focusing solely on economically infeasible alignments or suggesting absurd proposals that the state will never go for, like terminating the whole system in San Jose).mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-67739449596290079972009-04-05T10:54:00.000-07:002009-04-05T10:54:00.000-07:00I would call it timetable denial.Clearly the Googl...I would call it timetable denial.<BR/><BR/>Clearly the Google Street View evidence shows the timetable cannot possibly be correct. And don't know that the time table really is correct unless you ride 50 trains a day. And nobody rides 50 trains a day, Q.E.D.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-50894228603924999482009-04-05T09:49:00.000-07:002009-04-05T09:49:00.000-07:00they don't travel oftenBAR, I understand that is y...<I>they don't travel often</I><BR/><BR/>BAR, I understand that is your perception, but the <A HREF="http://caltrain.com/timetable.html" REL="nofollow">Caltrain Schedule</A> begs to differ. On weekdays, Caltrain runs 49 trains northbound and 49 trains southbound. That's not including the freight trains UPRR runs in the wee hours. In other words, over 100 trains pass through every weekday in a given 24 hour period. <BR/><BR/>I think it's safe to say that something that happens 100+ times a day is something that happens "often".Biancahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00660718116529125977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-14055808512503500822009-04-05T09:06:00.000-07:002009-04-05T09:06:00.000-07:00BAR, the link from Andrew Bogan at 10:25 am resolv...BAR, the link from Andrew Bogan at 10:25 am resolves into street view if you wait just a moment.Biancahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00660718116529125977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-32142952830949240342009-04-05T08:42:00.000-07:002009-04-05T08:42:00.000-07:00its easy to find a caltrain if you use an OVERHEAD...its easy to find a caltrain if you use an OVERHEAD MAP. What I said is to use street view, in the neighborhoods, and find a caltrain which you cannot do. All these neighborhood photos which we post here of Alma and San Jose have never been shown even once to feature a train coming down the tracks. Thats because they don't travel often.<BR/><BR/>I heard another alternate route yesterday- something about coming down 85 into the peninsula and using 101. Anybody hear about that?<BR/><BR/>I know you all love trains, but this blog is the epitome of groupthink. They either find an alternative for HSR on the peninsula or its a no go.Bay Area Residenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15807091317788242756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-20743601695738250142009-04-04T15:23:00.000-07:002009-04-04T15:23:00.000-07:00Quite, Bianca ... A row of townhouse condos facing...Quite, Bianca ... A row of townhouse condos facing the thoroughfare, an apartment block, a Taco Bell and Micky D's, a Wallgreen's or whatever y'all have as your local cookie cutter Medicare funding traps, and then another apartment block.<BR/><BR/>Work for the property developers, I guess, but compared to a split grade separation with a 10ft. high viaduct over a cool, shaded filtered gravel walking path next to a (shaded) paved cycleway ... indeed, the cycleway can for very little money be brought up alongside the viaduct to go over the road underpasses, since it can be a lightweight cable-stayed cycle bridge suspended from the basic viaduct structure ... <BR/><BR/>... I don't see how a ribbon of value-maximizing property development on top of a tunneled right of way would have a better "suburban amenity" feel to it.BruceMcFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08502035881761277885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-42255742529076207982009-04-04T15:04:00.000-07:002009-04-04T15:04:00.000-07:00if a tunnel is built, that airspace along a busy r...<I>if a tunnel is built, that airspace along a busy road like Camino Real is going to get exploited. Without the Caltrain Corridor as a barrier, and with the exorbitant cost of a tunnel to defray, that development will be the kind of development you would expect on a 75 foot wide or wider ribbon along a busy road newly opened for development. Parks just do not defray tunnel expenses like Burger Kings and Taco Bells</I><BR/><BR/>BruceMcF makes an excellent point. Tunnels are so much more expensive than a well-designed viaduct. Those costs will have to be recovered, and I would propose that in addition to strip malls and Taco Bells, there will also be a lot of high-density housing. High density housing is a logical fit in close proximity to Caltrain stations, and it's something that I don't have a problem with (after all, the alternative to density is sprawl, and density is the more environmentally sound alternative.) But there are a lot of people in this area (Palo Alto/Menlo Park) who oppose the construction of high density housing. I wonder what the correlation is between the folks demanding a tunnel and the folks opposed to high density housing.Biancahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00660718116529125977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-61580046598237177912009-04-04T13:47:00.000-07:002009-04-04T13:47:00.000-07:00San Mateo is having second thoughts:San Mateo city...<I>San Mateo is having second thoughts:</I><BR/><BR/>San Mateo city staff is just doing a thorough job of evaluating their options. They are taking the lead. Their grade separation problems are <B>far</B> more complicated than those four trivial little grade crossings in Palo Alto that seem to have captivated the blogosphere for two weeks straight.<BR/><BR/>Where do you see second thoughts in the staff report?Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-26194220668672005012009-04-04T13:39:00.000-07:002009-04-04T13:39:00.000-07:00Whats funny is that you can follow the train down ...Whats funny is that you can follow the train down the street with street view going north. LOLEricnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-90134232572543526942009-04-04T13:20:00.000-07:002009-04-04T13:20:00.000-07:00One click version of Eric's Google Street View of ...<A HREF="http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&layer=c&cbll=37.525418,-122.281764&panoid=y-8Ybpyc0DygyyR0Y4ew1g&cbp=12,26.803774759261703,,0,9.08397248985801&ll=37.525252,-122.280874&spn=0,359.994711&z=18" REL="nofollow">One click version of Eric's Google Street View of Caltrain in Belmont</A>. Again, isn't it just beautiful the way it is . . .Andrew Boganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02476018138604522417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-81326850528291098592009-04-04T13:18:00.000-07:002009-04-04T13:18:00.000-07:00San Mateo is having second thoughts:http://www.smd...San Mateo is having second thoughts:<BR/><BR/>http://www.smdailyjournal.com/article_preview.php?id=108182<BR/><BR/>http://www.cityofsanmateo.org/DocumentView.asp?DID=4761Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-83449735108825853162009-04-04T12:57:00.000-07:002009-04-04T12:57:00.000-07:00@Bruce: You're absolutely right, and I hate gettin...@Bruce: You're absolutely right, and I hate getting involved in these peninsula pissing matches, but that was in fact beautiful construction, it would open up the area east and west of Alma, making the neighborhoods east of Stanford walkable again, and if PA were to get something like that built (a whole lot more likely than a subway) it would honestly become an emblem of the city. Given PA's history as part of the Spanish Missions, I'm not even sure you'd need to change the architecture of it - just pick it up and move it :). (I'm sure Italy would be happy to oblige as a personal favor to Obama ;p).Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14186947428645370594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-1860356284100704472009-04-04T11:40:00.000-07:002009-04-04T11:40:00.000-07:00BAR: "try to find an in neighborhood grade separat...BAR: "<I>try to find an in neighborhood grade separation somewhere in the world that has archways like a viaduct and trees/shrubs growing on there with an "ivy league" feel, thats what you need.</I>"<BR/><BR/>And yet, when that <A HREF="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3471/3318801586_9fd782317e.jpg" REL="nofollow">was done (jpg)</A>, BAR was not in the commentary to <A HREF="http://cahsr.blogspot.com/2009/03/grade-separations-done-right.html" REL="nofollow">the post</A> saying, "well, of course <B><I>that</I></B> would be acceptable, its ugly concrete walls I am advocating against".<BR/><BR/>Indeed, transpose that viaduct from a ritzy European haborfront village to an upscale California Peninsula suburb, modify the Mediterranean Villa feel to an Ivy League feel, plant plant shade loving ferns and moss along the fringe, put in a walking path (closer to the suburban houses) and a cycleway (on the side of the busy thoroughfare that the Caltrain corridor currently shelters them against), and you have a substantial <I>upgrade</I> on the bullshit "suburban subway" that anti-HSR campaigners are pretending to demand ... and for a fraction of the cost of tunneling.<BR/><BR/>Indeed, set aside <BR/>HSR advocacy ... anyone along the Caltrain corridor who rests their faith in the anti-HSR campaign to put their property values first and foremost is living in a fantasy world.<BR/><BR/>There is a <I>reason</I> that suburbs are built with cul-de-sacs, and if a tunnel <I>is</I> built, that airspace along a busy road like Camino Real is going to get <I>exploited</I>. Without the Caltrain Corridor as a barrier, and with the exorbitant cost of a tunnel to defray, that development will be the kind of development you would expect on a 75 foot wide or wider ribbon along a busy road newly opened for development. Parks just do not defray tunnel expenses like Burger Kings and Taco Bells and yet another drive through pharmacy to chow down on that government Medicare funding for pharmaceuticals.<BR/><BR/>Someone who was <I>serious</I> about increasing the property values of Palo Alto suburban residential properties along and near the Caltrain corridor would be working non-stop building on that kind of example from Europe of an HSR corridor going through a ritzier location ... and, indeed, would be relentless in their attack on the "tunnel or nothing" bullshit being set forward by those hoping to derail the HSR project.<BR/><BR/>Seriously, you can can have a viaduct with a covered walkway and covered cycleway behind your back fence ... and at this stage in the segment design project, if sufficient local community support could be mustered behind it, that is certainly a realistic opportunity ... <B><I>but instead you are fighting for the right to have a Taco Bell behind your back fence</I></B>. Its just not a credible position to be taking.BruceMcFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08502035881761277885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-61976070013746674142009-04-04T10:52:00.000-07:002009-04-04T10:52:00.000-07:00BruceMcF, sorry, my bad. And the second link is n...BruceMcF, sorry, my bad. And the second link is not showing the street view either, but the train is there passing by. Too bad I cant go back and change it or delete my first post.Ericnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-39507741941028551442009-04-04T10:51:00.000-07:002009-04-04T10:51:00.000-07:00I don't know what that is. but in any case - mos...I don't know what that is. but in any case - most of the row effects down there can be easily mitigated so long as people are reasonable about their expectations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-27266666227649398242009-04-04T10:45:00.000-07:002009-04-04T10:45:00.000-07:00Google map links work better in html code:<a hr...Google map links work better in html code:<BR/><BR/><a href=" <I>Paste URL at this point...</I> "> <I>type text for link and then ...</I> </a>BruceMcFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08502035881761277885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-36797024925727117222009-04-04T10:33:00.000-07:002009-04-04T10:33:00.000-07:00@Andrew - and that is what the majority of the row...@Andrew - and that is what the majority of the row looks like. Any construction, wall, landsacaping, etc would be an improvement. Here's a pic of alma - with a wall already - of shrubs, but still if you use the same treatment it would look the same http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&rls=en&q=palo+alto+ca&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us&ei=N5nXSZPvDKK6tAOBquCmCg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-82030231544237414702009-04-04T10:27:00.000-07:002009-04-04T10:27:00.000-07:00My bad, pasted the wrong link. Here you go:http:/...My bad, pasted the wrong link. Here you go:<BR/><BR/>http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.525252,-122.280874&spn=0,359.99176&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=37.525418,-122.281764&panoid=y-8Ybpyc0DygyyR0Y4ew1g&cbp=12,3.4366347998296485,,0,3.242187499999999Ericnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-59951274969702960042009-04-04T10:25:00.000-07:002009-04-04T10:25:00.000-07:00@BARBy the way, I defy anyone to find even ONE str...@BAR<BR/><BR/><I>By the way, I defy anyone to find even ONE street view on the peninsula or in San Jose that actually features a train going by. If these are so frequent wouldn't you think Google would have picked up some pictures of some, somewhere?</I><BR/><BR/>That took 2 minutes. Here is <A HREF="http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&ll=37.429251,-122.141451&spn=0,359.661484&z=12&layer=c&cbll=37.429251,-122.141451&panoid=9fHXCe1oltrtBOILT8TMxA&cbp=12,240.158433137364,,0,1.66835699797161&msid=106548890746658627057.000466bdd840bacda20d3" REL="nofollow">Caltrain</A> from Alma Street opposite Bowden Park. Just beautiful isn't it?Andrew Boganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02476018138604522417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-70744017749832867152009-04-04T10:23:00.000-07:002009-04-04T10:23:00.000-07:00BAR,Here you go for your Caltrain picture:http://m...BAR,<BR/><BR/>Here you go for your Caltrain picture:<BR/><BR/>http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl<BR/><BR/>It took all of 1 minute to find! The more you try to make points, the more out in left field you sound!Ericnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-73184246968818799162009-04-04T10:15:00.000-07:002009-04-04T10:15:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Andrew Boganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02476018138604522417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-55995616321912479042009-04-04T10:04:00.000-07:002009-04-04T10:04:00.000-07:00@BARI'll look at Street View another time, but fin...@BAR<BR/><BR/>I'll look at Street View another time, but finding a <A HREF="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=caltrain&sll=37.512241,-122.294301&sspn=0.002013,0.005289&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=37.547974,-122.30603&spn=0.001055,0.002645&z=19" REL="nofollow">Caltrain</A> starting in Belmont on Google Maps took less than a minute.Andrew Boganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02476018138604522417noreply@blogger.com