tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post6635897697464869130..comments2023-10-30T09:03:07.163-07:00Comments on California High Speed Rail Blog: High Speed Nonsense in TracyRobert Cruickshankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-19843557277015101812008-09-09T14:27:00.000-07:002008-09-09T14:27:00.000-07:00I think you should cut Saalwaechter some slack. I...I think you should cut Saalwaechter some slack. It's obvious he doesn't have grip on the basics of the function of government, transportation, economics... even stringing together a coherent essay. He's in over his head.<BR/><BR/>Really, the blame falls on the Tracy Press. If you can't find someone skilled to write up an op-ed for your official position... just don't do it. This kind of mumble-jumble just makes you kinda wince.<BR/><BR/>There are arguments against high speed rail. Too bad Saalwaechter wasn't able to defecate any of them out into that op-ed.<BR/><BR/>Speaking of which, you realize that by linking to mumble-jumble like this, you increase it's page rank, and thus increase it's traffic? You might want to consider providing a text link, but not a hyperlink, to prevent google from thinking the mumble-jumble is anything but mumble-jumble. You could still link to well-written & researched criticisms of CAHSR...Mike Fogelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16486644683442406384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-85399313321121594752008-09-08T23:41:00.000-07:002008-09-08T23:41:00.000-07:00It's yet another example of the cost of waiting. W...It's yet another example of the cost of waiting. We could have voted on this in 2004.<BR/><BR/>It's 2008 and costs are escalating and corridors are being messed with. It's time to break ground on this thing already. <BR/><BR/>Besides, save the money that would have been spent on the updated business plan for the slew of lawsuits coming.Spokkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03244298044953214810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-58447431611056914302008-09-08T23:17:00.000-07:002008-09-08T23:17:00.000-07:00The readers of this blog might want to learn the r...The readers of this blog might want to learn the reason the CHSRA is not going to produce a business plan.<BR/><BR/>Rather, they are claiming they don't have the budget to produce the plan.<BR/><BR/>The full reply to my request for a copy of the plan is posted on <BR/><BR/>www.derailhsr.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-84354392079053357742008-09-08T17:59:00.000-07:002008-09-08T17:59:00.000-07:00^^^ I believe a and b above from rafael answer th...^^^ I believe a and b above from rafael answer the question concerning mile-for-mile construction comparisons.<BR/><BR/>Basically, the SJ BART extension is VERY capital intensive. Tunnels, grade crossings, etc. It has been a couple years, but as I recall very little of the extension was actually at-grade. 5+ yrs ago the cost per mile was estimated somewhere around $250million per mile.<BR/><BR/>HSR capital cost per mile appears much cheaper b/c of exactly what rafael speaks to... on a system level basis much of it is at grade with few grade-crossings and such. The cost per mile in much of hte open valley will be around $25 miilion per mile... give or take.Brandon in Californiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14796810137823230737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-13468231084567797442008-09-08T07:24:00.000-07:002008-09-08T07:24:00.000-07:00@ anon @ 12:48 -BART and HSR both require full gra...@ anon @ 12:48 -<BR/><BR/>BART and HSR both require full grade separation, which is expensive in densely built-up areas.<BR/><BR/>The reasons the HSR network is cheaper per mile are fairly straightforward:<BR/><BR/>a) by definition, most of the HSR intercity network runs through open countryside, where it is much cheaper to lay track - even though the construction tolerances are much tighter. That means the <I>average</I> per-mile cost is much lower than for BART.<BR/><BR/>b) the spine of the HSR network is much larger than all of BART put together, so there are better economies of scale in procuring land, materials and labor for getting it built.<BR/><BR/>c) since this is the first HSR project to be built in North America, vendors will compete aggressively in the reasonable expectation that other medium and high speed rail projects will follow. Nothing drives down prices like competition. BART features broad gauge, proprietary signaling and proprietary rolling stock technology - all of which reduce competition.<BR/><BR/>d) BART operations require subsidies, which the Bay Area counties served must fund ahead of any strictly local transit services. There is little incentive to keep a lid on recurring costs and, this includes debt service. If a new county - especially a wealthy one - wants to extend BART service into its territory, it has to pay a king's ransom for the privilege.<BR/><BR/>All of this leads contractors and any politicians/bureaucrats who wish to collude with them to jack up the price by insisting on gold-plated solutions. e.g. one subway line instead of multiple bus rapid transit lines for Fremont to San Jose.<BR/><BR/>---<BR/><BR/>Basically, BART delivers reasonable service at unreasonable cost. By contrast, HSR will deliver excellent service at reasonable prices - unless lawyers manage to throw a spanner or two in the works, which they well may.Rafaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05471957286484454765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-53008577282336481402008-09-08T01:10:00.000-07:002008-09-08T01:10:00.000-07:00if that, stated soberly, was the argument that the...if that, stated soberly, was the argument that the paper made - namely, that the pacheco alignment doesn't help much with the 580 commuter corridor - i don't think most here would have much of a problem with it. it's the over the top hyperbole that does the article in.無名 - wu minghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01078479850722724885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-69415945326471947682008-09-08T00:51:00.000-07:002008-09-08T00:51:00.000-07:00Also commuter traffic was explicitly put forward a...Also commuter traffic was explicitly put forward as a justification for the Altamont alignment by HSR supporters. So its unfair to go after a Tracy paper for pointing out the obvious fact that the project no longer provides them any commuter benefit.<BR/><BR/>Maybe if we're lucky BART can make it out there in the same decade that HSR is constructed. :|Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-24832977113965355122008-09-08T00:48:00.000-07:002008-09-08T00:48:00.000-07:00Someone needs to explain to me why HSR is cheaper ...Someone needs to explain to me why HSR is cheaper to construct than BART.<BR/><BR/>I understand BART uses a non-standard gauge, but the concrete overpasses are the same, the ROW costs are the same, and the bureaucratic overhead and system costs can't be all that different.<BR/><BR/>I am a HSR supporter not a 'denier', but if BART and HSR have vastly different cost projections for particular segments (e.g. Fremont to San Jose), any reasonable person would have to wonder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-86916502328362988042008-09-07T15:02:00.000-07:002008-09-07T15:02:00.000-07:00time driving from tracy to stockton train station:...time driving from tracy to stockton train station: 25 minutes.<BR/><BR/>train from stockton to fresno: 2 hours 10 minutes.<BR/><BR/>HSR from fresno to LA: 1 hour 18 minutes.<BR/><BR/>even before the HSR extension to sac is completed (which presumably will go through stockton, right next to tracy), that's a lot faster than the current way to get to LA from tracy, which is driving an hour and a half to sac or san jose and flying (with attendant wait and delay times), or else driving all the way down 5 through the grapevine.<BR/><BR/>one wonders what these people think about state-constructed freeway or airport expansion. if building a train line is beyond the ability of CA, how are we ever going to handle those transportation demands? it's the same government and contractors that handle any projects.<BR/><BR/>besides, if i lived in tracy, i'd be doing everything i could to encourage people building more ways of getting the heck out of town, not isolating myself.無名 - wu minghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01078479850722724885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-77304302523619217762008-09-07T12:39:00.000-07:002008-09-07T12:39:00.000-07:00I don't believe everything I read and hear... and ...I don't believe everything I read and hear... and often check the facts. Or the setting of the discussion.<BR/><BR/>To it...<BR/><BR/>The Tracy Press has a circulation of less than 10,000. And they only print on three days out of the week!<BR/><BR/>This is a paper that does not have the luxury to scrutinize submitted material for their paper. They must accept most everything to fill their pages. My mom could submit an article about UFO sightings in the foothills and get it printed in the Tracy Press!!!<BR/><BR/>As of this writing, the article only has 255 hits on the count... I probably created 3 of them myself while cruising their shallow site.<BR/><BR/>IMO, too much attention and therefore credibility is given to the article. Let's discuss something from a paper with greater influence.<BR/><BR/>It's also laughable, not laudible, that the HSR denier site highlights the article as endorsing their position. <BR/><BR/>C'mon guy, can't you do better than that?<BR/><BR/>By the way, where did it go.... the HSR denier site? It does not show-up in the first 2 pages of a google search?<BR/><BR/>Mmm... I guess the main stream media is catching on!Brandon in Californiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14796810137823230737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-34209679018392332582008-09-07T12:05:00.000-07:002008-09-07T12:05:00.000-07:00What a stupid article..total rapid anti-rail,,jarv...What a stupid article..total rapid anti-rail,,jarvis mouth..read the comments..looks like there from young people..the one that will vote yes..not the whiney old gray haired dudes!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-55962869876916982962008-09-07T10:40:00.000-07:002008-09-07T10:40:00.000-07:00Our changes are not baseless, just because you lab...Our changes are not baseless, just because you label them as such.<BR/><BR/>How you can again say CHSRA just had 3 days to produce the business plan when they agreed long ago to the Sept 1st date is beyond me.<BR/><BR/>In any case, it has yet to be produced, it was mandated in Prop 1A and the date was agreed upon by CHSRA in the content of the law. I hope you don't think that is also baseless. <BR/><BR/>In point of fact when I gave input to the Senate Transportation and Housing committee, the business plan was my key point.<BR/><BR/>I was and still am upset that the voters are being asked to approve a project of this magnitude and adequate financial information is not available. At that time the business plan was to be due on October 1st. Absentee ballots are mailed on October 1st and about 50% of those ballots are returned within 10 days. Absentee ballots are almost 50% of the votes being cast these days. <BR/><BR/>Oct. 1st was way too late for many voters to have a chance to view the results. So the date was set to Sept. 1st, and now they have not met that and who know when they are going to deliver.<BR/><BR/>I simply don't understand why you would not support at least CHSRA meeting this requirement. Do you fear what it might say?<BR/><BR/>The real test is in an independent peer review of the plan, which will not be available until after the election has been completed.<BR/><BR/>What should have happened is the business plan prepared by CHSRA and on a parallel course an independent business plan presented as prepared by a group such as the Berkeley Transportation Institute. That Is what my input to the Senate committee requested.<BR/><BR/>So there is no plan. Will there be one? I have requested a copy and thus far nobody has it and that includes Senators as far as I know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-22595229932892681502008-09-07T09:35:00.000-07:002008-09-07T09:35:00.000-07:00The difference is that you like the op-ed merely b...The difference is that you like the op-ed merely because it makes the same baseless charges you usually do, whereas my response is based on the (lack of) facts in that op-ed.<BR/><BR/>I always knew the Authority was being set up by you HSR deniers to fail on the business plan no matter what they did. First you whined that October 1 was too late for you all to review it effectively. Then after Ashburn moved it to September 1, Arnold gave the Authority <B>three days</B> to produce it.<BR/><BR/>Three days.<BR/><BR/>Even if they met that goal the document would be incomplete, which you'd use to "prove" the Authority is incompetent. Since they've decided to honor the spirit of the plan and make sure it's done right instead of done in haste, you're attacking them anyway.<BR/><BR/>Ridiculous.Robert Cruickshankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-25471096225603430112008-09-07T09:23:00.000-07:002008-09-07T09:23:00.000-07:00Actually as you probably note, Robert, we found th...Actually as you probably note, Robert, we found the article right to the point and put it on our website immediately. <BR/><BR/>Hopefully the press is starting to wake up to our arguments and realize how CHSRA is trying to sell "snake oil" to the California voters.<BR/><BR/>We have asked for the business plan that was due on Sept 1st and was mandated by Prop 1A and agreed to be provided by the CHSRA. So far no response, but the question will be asked of Rod Diridon at the Sept 9th, Menlo Park study session, so maybe he will tell us why it has yet to be delivered.<BR/><BR/>How many failures of this politically run agency can be tolerated. They spend millions of dollars and years of time producing a CEQA document that studies a ROW that they can't use because it is owned by another party. This along with many other deficiencies in the EIR leads to a lawsuit.<BR/><BR/>Their choice of the Pacheco route should certainly be discredited by much of what has been written in your blog here.<BR/><BR/>So you may label the Tracy article <BR/>"High Speed Nonsense in Tracy", we would label it "Good Sense on High Speed Rail from Tracy"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com