tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post7610264161381800146..comments2023-10-30T09:03:07.163-07:00Comments on California High Speed Rail Blog: Spoiling the BunchRobert Cruickshankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-69389489657954327962009-11-12T06:55:31.561-08:002009-11-12T06:55:31.561-08:00Poor nimbys..they can dish it out but they cant ta...Poor nimbys..they can dish it out but they cant take it..Calling kopp/didiron all kinds of things in the media and then they think "rotten apples" terrible..NONIMBYSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-91037308025453112202009-11-11T09:35:01.672-08:002009-11-11T09:35:01.672-08:00Exploiting people's instinctive fears and comf...Exploiting people's instinctive fears and comforting them in their prejudices has always been easier than appealling to their intelligence. Fear is immune to logical arguments. It only disappears when people physically realize there is nothing to be afraid of.<br />This will happen when a fragment of the line is built and trains are running. Then, the public will realize that HSR is not the monster they were indoctrinated to fear.<br />Of course, the "Kill-HSR" people will do everything they can to prevent that moment of truth from ever happening.Andre Perettinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-43539262578718230062009-11-11T06:42:55.112-08:002009-11-11T06:42:55.112-08:00@Clem: I am well aware that other options are bein...@Clem: I am well aware that other options are being considered, and my comment was in the context of that particular area of the peninsula. Does a trench/tunnel really make sense there?<br /><br />@Jim: Good argument for platform screen doors.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-4524356366331487982009-11-11T02:58:27.718-08:002009-11-11T02:58:27.718-08:00did everyone see thisdid everyone see<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g16c08hkIMk" rel="nofollow"> this</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-79444992350090761332009-11-10T22:59:56.240-08:002009-11-10T22:59:56.240-08:00To my knowledge, though, an elevated alignment is ...<i>To my knowledge, though, an elevated alignment is and always has been, the preferred alignment</i><br /><br />Time to study up, Joey!<br /><br />The panoply of alignments officially under consideration is shown <a href="http://www.docstoc.com/docs/12356723/highspeedrail" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />As you can readily observe, elevated alignments are only being considered on certain stretches of the peninsula, and then only among other choices.Clemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01374282217135682245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-91515113347657147162009-11-10T22:10:26.671-08:002009-11-10T22:10:26.671-08:00What you guys need to do is an all out offensive a...What you guys need to do is an all out offensive against HSR opponents. Call them traitors who are willing to let the US lose out on the world's competetive edge.<br /><br />Here's a good argument:<br /><br />China is currently investing in billions in developing it's HSR network. In fact, the majority of their existing HSR has become so popular, airlines in China are dropping flights and cancelling orders for new planes - Boeing planes. And the guys who are winning those billion dollar contracts are the French, the Germans, and Japanese firms. US competitive edge is losing out to foreign firms because we have no HSR experience.<br /><br />Are these opponents willing to let the US lose out against foreign firms? As we speak, countries like Turkey, India, Brazil, Mexico, and Vietnam have started expressing interest in developing their own HSR network. Are we to let the French, the Germans, and the Japanese to gobble up all the contracts while we stand alone looking like idiots and do nothing?<br /><br /><br />Now that's a good attack against HSR opponents. If they consider themselves to be real patriots, they will have to support HSR as an initiative to bring back US competetive edge in the world. That's what they want, right? Bringing back jobs back to America and making us a nation of exporters again. Well, HSR has that benefit!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-9109679971997631802009-11-10T20:22:45.060-08:002009-11-10T20:22:45.060-08:00Okay, fine, if you want to be completely anal and ...Okay, fine, if you want to be completely anal and explicit about everything:<br /><br />My claim that they have no reason to change the route was an assertion based on the fact that their reasons for choosing the CalTrain route over other routes still hold true. If conditions generally changed fast enough for such major planning work to become obsolete so quickly, I imagine our EIR process would be radically different than it is now. So yes, it is technically possible for them to change the route right now, but the chance of that happening is nearly negligible, unless you can think of some legitimate reason why they should change it that wasn't present at the publishing of the EIR. And even then, it would have to be enough to counter all the favorable characteristics the route has to begin with. In all probability, the route isn't going anywhere. Plus, they've made no indication that they are even looking at changing it.<br /><br />And yes, I'm well aware that UPRR operates on the peninsula, but to my knowledge, the specific EIR issue had to do with ROW issues south of San José (the peninsula freight trackage rights being a relatively small issue in comparison).<br /><br />One other thing though - the judge did indicate explicitly that project level work could continue. And while not stated explicitly, this very fact indicates that he anticipated very few changes to the Program EIR - for instance, route changes. If such changes were necessary, I doubt that project-level work would have been permitted to continue.<br /><br />So yeah, it's technically true that nothing is 100% certain at this point, but we can make educated guesses, and it's not difficult to guess what CHSRA will choose in the end.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-54376649871467465912009-11-10T19:52:23.457-08:002009-11-10T19:52:23.457-08:00Joey, they have to update the eir -Its just semant...Joey, they have to update the eir -Its just semantics to argue whether they are redoing it entirely or just updating it all with current info. Do you think they'll be allowed to publish a new one and consider it for certification with out of date info in it? Just some parts allowed to remain 'unknown' when in fact they are now known pieces of info? And BTW, UPRR does operate and have an interest in teh Caltrain row on the Peninsula, Do you think they don't have to define the UPRR relationship on the Peninsula before they publish the new EIR?<br /><br /> <br />And I think what we were talking about was technically speaking misinformation. And it is technically against the law for the CHSRA to be making final decisions before they have completed the EIR completed. So technically they are lawbreakers? or spreading misinformation? There really aren't any other choices.<br /><br />And what about you JOey? They have no reason to change the route? How do you know? They haven't provided an EIR yet. How do you know they don't have a reason to change the route? Are you too spreading misinformation?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-13104566130738504512009-11-10T19:03:11.125-08:002009-11-10T19:03:11.125-08:00Plus, you act like they have to redo the whole EIR...Plus, you act like they have to redo the whole EIR, which they don't.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-58797700044996181632009-11-10T19:02:28.068-08:002009-11-10T19:02:28.068-08:00Oh c'mon, now that's just delusional. As ...Oh c'mon, now that's just delusional. As I said earlier:<br /><br /><i>You ... seriously still think the route could be changed because of a few inadequacies in the EIR. </i><br /><br />While it may be <i>technically</i> possible, the chances that they will change the route are next to nil. And let's be honest, they have no reason to change the route. Heck, the UPRR issue doesn't even apply to the peninsula, and there are still plenty of options south of San José.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-74570047281721682362009-11-10T18:22:25.187-08:002009-11-10T18:22:25.187-08:00Technically the route hasn't been chosen yet. ...Technically the route hasn't been chosen yet. It CAN'T be, by law, because they have no valid EIR at this point.<br /><br />So technically, its misinfomation to say that IT WILL go down the peninsula, unless you are suggesting the CHSRA is breaking the law by having already determined a route without proper study.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-54798736648503039312009-11-10T16:12:44.257-08:002009-11-10T16:12:44.257-08:00Okay, I'll concede that you're technically...Okay, I'll concede that you're technically right in this scenario (not that you'd do the same, but always better to take the higher moral ground). It's true, the exact vertical alignment hasn't been *chosen* yet. To my knowledge, though, an elevated alignment is and always has been, the preferred alignment, simply because a tunnel or trench don't really make sense.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-29918639209774357032009-11-10T16:01:34.218-08:002009-11-10T16:01:34.218-08:00HSR WILL BE BUILT
Tony's argument boils down ...<i>HSR WILL BE BUILT</i><br /><br />Tony's argument boils down to BLUSTER<br /><br /><i>Why do you think they chose an elevated alignment in the first place?</i><br /><br />They have chosen no such thing. Kind of ironic that Joey is spreading misinformation too...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-3810044445814498902009-11-10T15:23:52.481-08:002009-11-10T15:23:52.481-08:00Other places where there is a grade crossing but a...<i>Other places where there is a grade crossing but are not near a Caltrain station may have less noise.</i><br /><br />There will be no grade crossings on the peninsula once HSR is in operation. Why do you think they chose an elevated alignment in the first place?Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-75385865624375177162009-11-10T15:17:11.226-08:002009-11-10T15:17:11.226-08:00Morris Brown has posted about this "rotten ap...Morris Brown has posted about this "rotten apples" bit in two other threads on this blog and in a couple of different places on the local press websites. <br /><br />So when Diridon said:<br /><br /> <i>"What I referred to was that one piece of misinformation will be repeated and repeated and therefore cause a lot of confusion," </i><br /><br /> <br />It seems to me that by spreading around his first comment repeatedly, and disregarding his clarification, Morris Brown is proving Diridon's point.Biancahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00660718116529125977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-64948959877521708972009-11-10T14:22:54.776-08:002009-11-10T14:22:54.776-08:00trains passing through but not stopping at a stati...<i>trains passing through but not stopping at a station would be required to sound horns.</i><br /><br />No. There is no such regulation or requirement.<br /><br />Horns are sounded at the engineer's discretion if there is a perceived danger. Passengers standing too close to the tracks do occasionally present such a danger.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-23921092696944521172009-11-10T14:11:52.867-08:002009-11-10T14:11:52.867-08:00On the horns issue, unless there is a rules change...<i>On the horns issue, unless there is a rules change, trains passing through but not stopping at a station would be required to sound horns. With number of trains going from 10-40, and the number of trains NOT stopping at places like Palo Alto, going from 0-20ish, some areas are likely to experience increase in horn noise.</i><br /><br />Um, what? Caltrain doesn't blow horns now when it expresses through a station UNLESS there is a grade separation. Ride a baby bullet sometime through San Carlos - no horns.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-21662524855282993632009-11-10T14:01:29.145-08:002009-11-10T14:01:29.145-08:00Obviously more outreach to the Peninsula needs to ...Obviously more outreach to the Peninsula needs to be done. The strategy I would employ would be to have public meetings over and over again showing the various options from the previously posted video (elevated, retaining hybrid, trench and tunnel). Let people vent, share their concerns and see the various options. Be consistent in message: HSR is coming. You can have input on which ROW method is used.<br /><br />Over time people will feel they have been heard and seeing the options repeatedly will make them familiar and focus them on what they can control. Instead of HSR being something unknown to fear they will likely either lose interest as the meeting will all be the same or they will refocus on what type of ROW they want in their community. This takes the power away from the fearmongers as the HSR options become more familiar and "old news".missiondwellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15670866304509302843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-6946152063899903732009-11-10T13:32:47.310-08:002009-11-10T13:32:47.310-08:00On the horns issue, unless there is a rules change...On the horns issue, unless there is a rules change, trains passing through but not stopping at a station would be required to sound horns. With number of trains going from 10-40, and the number of trains NOT stopping at places like Palo Alto, going from 0-20ish, some areas are likely to experience increase in horn noise.<br /><br /><br />Other places where there is a grade crossing but are not near a Caltrain station may have less noise.<br /><br />Not as open and shut as one might think...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-30260824639871564992009-11-10T13:28:43.237-08:002009-11-10T13:28:43.237-08:00I'm with Bianca on this. My consistent approac...I'm with Bianca on this. My consistent approach, ever since the blog started, was that it's better to debunk these people and risk giving them more attention than ignoring their claims and hoping they go away. Especially since they're already getting these claims into the local media.<br /><br />As usual, I don't devote this blog to attacks on HSR opponents. When I woke up this morning I thought I'd be writing about the Central Valley maintenance hub debate. Oh well. Maybe tomorrow.Robert Cruickshankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-76589940008038048132009-11-10T13:23:49.554-08:002009-11-10T13:23:49.554-08:00@Tony D., I have to respectfully disagree. To lea...@Tony D., I have to respectfully disagree. To leave the the Peninsula opponents to HSR unanswered creates a perception that there's little to no support for HSR on the Peninsula, which is certainly not the case. It's important to call them out, so that people on the sidelines get the whole story.<br /><br />The way this has been framed by Martin Engel and Morris Brown, you'd think that Diridon had called them out by name. But he didn't. It suits the purposes of the oppostion to portray CHSRA as arrogant, unfeeling bureaucrats with a flimsy grasp on the truth. So they've taken this story and tried to blow it up into "Diridon called us mean names!" when in fact he didn't. <br /><br />The reality is that there is a lot of misinformation circulating on the Peninsula about HSR. That's a fact, just like the Earth is round and the sky is blue. <br /><br />It's important that folks on the Peninsula understand that, so that when someone tells them about a 75 foot high wall or six tracks wide or that they heard about somebody getting an eminent domain notice from CHSRA, they don't just believe it unquestioningly.Biancahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00660718116529125977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-64164424752149913542009-11-10T13:17:07.614-08:002009-11-10T13:17:07.614-08:00look out for the death star<a href="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_EJHLmXOyIRY/SvnYH50iOyI/AAAAAAAAAiU/iLHiB-pLkI4/s800/Untitled%201.jpg" rel="nofollow">look out for the death star</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-86569051035552322602009-11-10T13:10:08.468-08:002009-11-10T13:10:08.468-08:00Wow, talk about much ado about nothing. Diridon a...Wow, talk about much ado about nothing. Diridon actually referenced inadvertent misinformation by CHSRA staff before he even mentioned generic "opponents." Clearly Martin wants attention...not a big surprise.mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-74422714375066518022009-11-10T13:04:17.927-08:002009-11-10T13:04:17.927-08:00Robert,
Respectfully, you and I are on the same p...Robert,<br /><br />Respectfully, you and I are on the same page when it comes to HSR. But I think to constantly put the NIMBY'S and naysayers in the spotlight (with posts such as today's) is counterproductive and a waste of time. There are those on the Peninsula, and I assume other parts of California, who would be against this project even if people like Engel didn't exist. Fine, that's there right. But the truth of the matter is that HSR WILL BE BUILT on the Peninsula as planned. It doesn't matter what a small minority thinks or what some small-town gazette puts out on newsprint/the web. The majority of Californian's, and overwhelming majority in the Bay Area/on the Peninsula, want this project and it will be built!<br /><br />Oh sure, the NIMBY's/naysayers were recently granted with a "victory," of sorts (?), by a judge's recent ruling in Sac. So we'll now have to tweak an EIR and put in stone the final ROW from SJ through Pacheco Pass (not really a bad thing in this proponents eyes). But in the end HSR will be built along the Peninsula/Caltrain ROW, through the Pacheco Pass and on to LA/SoCal. As the Sun rises every morning, that's the truth!<br /><br />anon 11:56,<br />"The weak-minded are those who got conned by the prop 1A bs."<br /><br />anon 12:20,<br />"Blah Blah Blah Blah......"<br /><br />Boy, are some people going to be absolutely miserable come 2020 (if they're still alive).Tony D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03392232221747908883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-41600931670360992192009-11-10T12:56:27.383-08:002009-11-10T12:56:27.383-08:00"Is not like he wasn't warned that the Pe..."Is not like he wasn't warned that the Peninsula was not the place they wanted to tangle with if they ever wanted to see HSR in their lifetimes."<br /><br />You guys think you're so special. Get over yourselves.AndyDuncannoreply@blogger.com