tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post8640131777126293560..comments2023-10-30T09:03:07.163-07:00Comments on California High Speed Rail Blog: Mercury Drops Bid for CHSRA Communications ContractRobert Cruickshankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-51303343980922481892009-10-23T23:17:48.931-07:002009-10-23T23:17:48.931-07:00My real reason for being against Tehachapi is that...<i>My real reason for being against Tehachapi is that I want a bleeding edge hsr.</i><br /><br />And my real reason for being against the Grapevine is that I want a system that manages to keep the cost overruns to a reasonable minimum.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-6069809472475895832009-10-23T22:17:42.085-07:002009-10-23T22:17:42.085-07:00it is amazing how the anomymi repeatedly argue on ...it is amazing how the anomymi repeatedly argue on the one hand about CAHSR's supposed cost overruns, and then immediately propose all manner of gold-plated unnecessary additions that would drive the cost up.無名 - wu minghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01078479850722724885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-10476586352677920042009-10-23T20:08:46.340-07:002009-10-23T20:08:46.340-07:00That may be what you want, but that doesn't s...That may be what you want, but that doesn't serve california's broader goals for transportation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-11805294618687931082009-10-23T20:06:14.367-07:002009-10-23T20:06:14.367-07:00My real reason for being against Tehachapi is that...My real reason for being against Tehachapi is that I want a bleeding edge hsr.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-47224305665418006292009-10-23T19:44:10.903-07:002009-10-23T19:44:10.903-07:00tehachapi also adds a better vegas connection from...tehachapi also adds a better vegas connection from norcal, even without vegas hsr. because currently passengers have a 6 hour train ride to bakersfield and a five hour bus ride from there. versus a two hour train ride to palmdale and 4 hour bus ride. It almost cuts the travel time in half.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-41343497605112064362009-10-23T19:27:52.626-07:002009-10-23T19:27:52.626-07:00We don't even know if it is necessary to cross...<i>We don't even know if it is necessary to cross the San Andreas in tunnel.</i><br /><br />True. There's one available option for crossing it at grade, which may or may not cross other yet unknown faults in tunnel - it's not known because it depends on meter-scale geology.<br /><br />The cost estimates for the Tehachapi and Grapevine options are about the same, but the Grapevine has a higher risk of cost overruns, if it turns out that it's impossible to cross the San Andreas at grade.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-35108869261784956072009-10-23T18:59:33.261-07:002009-10-23T18:59:33.261-07:00What is your real reason for being against tehacha...What is your real reason for being against tehachapi? hmmmm?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-59657989715611425222009-10-23T18:38:30.580-07:002009-10-23T18:38:30.580-07:00We don't even know if it is necessary to cross...We don't even know if it is necessary to cross the San Andreas in tunnel. <br /><br />There is no project that has an "ünlimited cost", not even the Bay Bridge. What could be virtually unlimited are the costs of ongoing operating subsidies. The faster times afforded by the I-5-Grapevine could allow the hsr to break even instead of requiring a subsidy. Remember it is still faster for Bakersfield and Fresno. And significantly faster SF-LA, enough to cut into the airlines. <br /><br />You don't have to kill the hsr - just reroute it. Just come up with some hokey reasons, like the ones that have been used against the Grapevine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-77020337958934358832009-10-23T18:28:41.668-07:002009-10-23T18:28:41.668-07:00Tehachapi Madness, Anon,
Can you give an example ...Tehachapi Madness, Anon,<br /><br />Can you give an example of HSR tunnel that crosses active fault?K.T.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-62875355007862124512009-10-23T18:11:32.364-07:002009-10-23T18:11:32.364-07:00The proper solution is worth the extra money. The...The proper solution is worth the extra money. The Grapevine is manifestly the superior route. Because it is so much shorter it behooves us to cost it out in detail. Let the engineers work on this problem. Knowledge is power and it is worth the cost to engineer this thing in detail.<br /><br />I an certain that a private entrepreneur or auslanders in general would not dismiss the Grapevine without a genuinely exhaustive study. Just maybe Balfour Beatty will revisit the I-5 in order to save precious minutes. Just a whisper in Di-Fi's ear might do the trick. The public will understand the obvious that the Grapevine is the more direct route.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-19284577713272305292009-10-23T17:34:58.255-07:002009-10-23T17:34:58.255-07:00you got rocks in your head or what.you got rocks in your head or what.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-248958361976496552009-10-23T17:34:25.482-07:002009-10-23T17:34:25.482-07:00palmdale isnt going to be served by a regional upg...palmdale isnt going to be served by a regional upgrade they are going to be served by high speed rail because los angeles county voted for high speed rail based in part on the the chosen route. You aren't going to pull a bait and switch and try to take hsr away from the central and antelope valleys' BOTH OF WHICH ARE CURRENTLY UNDER SERVED AND BOTH OF WHICH WILL BE ABSORBING A LARGE SHARE OF THE STATE'S FUTURE POPULATION GROWTH<br /><br />D O Y O U U N D E R S T A A A A A A A N D?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-63575499880673527552009-10-23T17:23:37.028-07:002009-10-23T17:23:37.028-07:00anon and tehach madness are out of their minds and...anon and tehach madness are out of their minds and don't know what they are talking about.<br /><br />there are 12 trains daily @ BFD 6 in each direction.<br /><br />they don't use up tracks because up won't let them and amtrak has been trying for decades.<br /><br />There are 30 buses a day in and out of BFD.<br /><br />They don't use the 1-5 because it faster, they use buses over the 1-5 because UP won't let them on the tehach tracks.<br /><br />The proposed route through the techapapis is not a difficult route and metrolink already goes through there.<br /><br />further, you can cross the fault at grade rather tan inside a tunnel which makes sense for so many reasons not the least of which is that when there is damage, fixing tracks at grade is a cheap piece of cake and rebuilding a fractured tunnel is a billion dollars.<br /><br />didn't your mother ever tell you not to talk about sutff while your head is up your ass.<br /><br />The hsr isnt going over the grapevine.<br /><br />Not now. not ever. IF you are hell bent on killing the project because you are a nimby or hell bent on killing the project just because you didn't get your way, you're going to have to come up with a better argument.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-62221466563382616102009-10-23T17:03:55.158-07:002009-10-23T17:03:55.158-07:00Tehachapi requires 60 extra miles through difficul...Tehachapi requires 60 extra miles through difficult terrain and plenty of tunnelling. Tehachapi will require lots of tunnels unless you want to slow the train down significantly.<br /><br />If you are willing to slow down the train AND add 60 miles to the route, you can easily have the train climb the Grapevine with very little tunneling by relying on climbing curves. Not ideal, but certainly cheaper. If you are going to burden the route with an extra 60 miles and long, steep grades with Tehachapi, why not??? The Grapevine is actually a cheaper option, but this project is not about affordability.Tehachapi Madnessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-37492448569689945722009-10-23T16:53:29.873-07:002009-10-23T16:53:29.873-07:00omg, not this again.
Let's be clear. Nobody c...omg, not this again.<br /><br />Let's be clear. Nobody criticizing the Tehachapi alignment has ever explained how you can build the route along I-5 at a price we can afford. I have to question whether anyone making this point has ever actually traveled along I-5 over the Grapevine.<br /><br />It's just not credible to criticize the Tehachapi alignment unless you are willing to spend an unlimited amount of money building a long tunnel through the Tejon Pass/Castaic region.Robert Cruickshankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-89700540896931901752009-10-23T16:51:48.533-07:002009-10-23T16:51:48.533-07:00Tehachapi will require plenty of tunneling. The l...Tehachapi will require plenty of tunneling. The long, steep grade is also going to slow HSR trains down significantly according to PB's own plans. <br /><br />The amount of tunneling over the Grapevine will depend on the speed desired. Higher speed = more straight tracks = more tunnels. Less speed = curvier tracks to climb mountains = less tunnels. Given that the Tehachapi route is already so severely constrained with 60 more miles and that long, steep grade, the Grapevine could easily settle for slower speeds and less tunneling across the mountain.Tehachapi Madnessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-25120326967626462009-10-23T16:27:13.323-07:002009-10-23T16:27:13.323-07:00Do you have any idea how much more expensive tunne...Do you have any idea how much more expensive tunneling is compared to at-grade alignments?Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-5314032500181463952009-10-23T16:18:30.328-07:002009-10-23T16:18:30.328-07:00I feel like we are in a time warp:
http://sfgate....I feel like we are in a time warp:<br /><br />http://sfgate.info/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1996/02/29/MN17752.DTL&hw=federal&sn=805&sc=250Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-89366372487052362432009-10-23T15:36:32.244-07:002009-10-23T15:36:32.244-07:00How do you account for financing the construction ...How do you account for financing the construction and maintenance of the extra 60 miles of trackage that Tehachapi requires over the Grapevine? <br /><br />Can't build a tunnel across an active fault? Get better tunnel engineers. It is certainly surmountable, and the benefits are so much greater.<br /><br />With some flexibility in design, you can even avoid tunneling across an active fault. Those studies were rigged and hardly definitive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-68950504960735011792009-10-23T15:31:47.775-07:002009-10-23T15:31:47.775-07:00Five buses... wow, that's serious demand (fee...Five buses... wow, that's serious demand (feel the sarcasm) for a train that arrives six times daily to connect to LA. Obviously, not many people are riding Jim's trains, so he has no clue where people want to go.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-25825724296217735742009-10-23T15:27:19.733-07:002009-10-23T15:27:19.733-07:00For the last time TEHACHAPI IS NOT ABOUT PALMDALE
...For the last time TEHACHAPI IS NOT ABOUT PALMDALE<br /><br />BTW for anyone advocating the grapevine alignment — how do you propose to account for the considerably escalated costs of that route, which could easily amount to more than twice the amount of tunneling as Tehachapi?Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16406340564037825796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-86981162802674104542009-10-23T15:19:46.429-07:002009-10-23T15:19:46.429-07:00There's not even one passenger train on the Te...<i>There's not even one passenger train on the Tehachapis Loop line currently. Be realistic; if there were a genuine demand for rail service on that route the UP could be convinced to cooperate with Amtrak, especially now that rail traffic is way off.</i><br /><br />That's because there's no room in the schedule for passenger trains - UP has it full to the brim with freight.<br /><br />Frankly, I'd be thrilled to ride the train instead of the buses. Note that every time I take Amtrak to LA, they fill 5 buses going south from Bakersfield (then two more go elsewhere).<br /><br />elflingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-18153542902337520452009-10-23T15:15:58.934-07:002009-10-23T15:15:58.934-07:00It's an interesting idea: why doesn't Amtr...It's an interesting idea: why doesn't Amtrak try out a temporary rail route from Bakersfield to LA through the Tehachapi Pass, especially when freight traffic is down?<br /><br />I think the obvious answer is that the bus bridge across the Grapevine is much faster, even if Amtrak could reach high speeds over the Tehachapi (which has long, steep grades).<br /><br />Jim, Palmdale has a very small population spread at an ultra-low density. Commercial air operations there are defunct. Why build enormously expensive, high-capacity infrastructure to such a mousehole? Land developers and construction interests.Tehachapi Madnessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-69139942842264860682009-10-23T13:57:51.300-07:002009-10-23T13:57:51.300-07:00bakersfield is in the top 10 busies in cali with ...bakersfield is in the top 10 busies in cali with nearly a half million per year already.and thats with only a few trains a day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-19141083186975820032009-10-23T13:21:06.339-07:002009-10-23T13:21:06.339-07:00Likewise Bakersfield and Fresno can be served by a...<i>Likewise Bakersfield and Fresno can be served by a branch to the I-5 alignment and still be faster.</i><br /><br />Can you show us what alignment would that be, and how many minutes it would save?<br /><br /><i>There's not even one passenger train on the Tehachapis Loop line currently.</i><br /><br />There are shuttle buses from LA to Bakersfield, which are much faster than the capacity-constrained, bicycle-speed freight trains that go through the Tehachapis.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.com