tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post9198357815221731737..comments2023-10-30T09:03:07.163-07:00Comments on California High Speed Rail Blog: A Compromise Proposal for TJPA and CHSRARobert Cruickshankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comBlogger101125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-4009822330570804342009-09-26T19:15:14.310-07:002009-09-26T19:15:14.310-07:00But the Grapevine is way more direct. Let's g...But the Grapevine is way more direct. Let's go for broke. If your goal is to save money go for an incremental upgrade to 110 mph and cut a deal with the UP.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-88238296153198470282009-09-26T15:03:47.417-07:002009-09-26T15:03:47.417-07:00Grapevine isn't bare bones. The expected cost ...Grapevine isn't bare bones. The expected cost is the same as for Tehachapi, and the potential for cost overruns is much larger.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-78757377155471364492009-09-26T11:36:06.034-07:002009-09-26T11:36:06.034-07:00Sun Rises, Sun Falls, etc. is correct. The CHSRa ...Sun Rises, Sun Falls, etc. is correct. The CHSRa needs to develop a barebones fall-back scheme I-5, Grapevine alternative.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-54960867180284429072009-09-25T15:12:53.309-07:002009-09-25T15:12:53.309-07:00@Rafael
I met with Caltrain staff last week and t...@Rafael<br /><br />I met with Caltrain staff last week and the claim the the San Bruno curve will be upgraded to ~90m mph instead of the current 60 mph. That should lessen the impact on HSR trains (and Baby Bullets considerably.<br /><br />As for the TBT, I am glad to see the research you did for this post but there are a few whopper mistakes you keep repeating about the TBT. (I'm cross-posting this to the Taiwan post as well.)<br /><br />1. & 2. The TJPA is looking not only at a direct connection to Embarcadero but ALSO at Montgomery. A big sewer line would complicate the Montgomery ped. tunnel, but $$ solves all engineering problems. So with enough funds BOTH can be built. This would best serve HSR and BART by splitting up the circulation impact of transfers between the two BART stations.<br /><br />2. The CA HSRA was asked in 2000 what curve radii they needed. Their response was 493 feet. Since then the TJPA has enlarged the radii several times. The HSR radii are now 650 feet (Caltrain can use different rolling stock with smaller turning radii for 110-125 mph max speeds). So, A how is this a big problem anymore and B, how is TJPA to blame when the HSR Authority told them under 493 feet and didn't correct it for 8 years! The TJPA fixed the radii to be better let's all move on.<br /><br />4 & 5. The throat and tunnel will be redesigned, maybe as 2 or 3 bores, as soon as money becomes available, but it is far from cast in concrete. I am not an engineer so I can't say if the design allows more than 20 trains per hour per direction or not, but it can and will be fixed as part of the final (re)design. The box will be an empty box the tunnel will be built later.<br /><br />6. Building bottom up allows a lot of flexibility as to where the columns go, if the Terminal is built top-down the columns will be forever stuck in place.<br /><br />7. Transit advocates have fought for decades for a future standard-gauge fixed link to East Bay. If you want to walk in and say both they and BART are full of it... Well that is your right but don't expect to change any minds. That provision, like the Transbay Terminal reference in Prop 1A, was written into law for a good reason.Brian Stankehttp://www.ca4hsr.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-11919550854536392402009-09-25T13:42:07.835-07:002009-09-25T13:42:07.835-07:00"SF is frankly a pain in the ass, and the onl...<i>"SF is frankly a pain in the ass, and the only locals that really do it are the ones that MUST because they work there, or the few that LIVE there because they're sick like that."</i><br /><br />(That's right, and we're gonna keep that idea floating around to make sure folks like you stay away)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-32677479647057285242009-09-25T11:40:11.375-07:002009-09-25T11:40:11.375-07:00Anon 11:13pm
"SF is frankly a pain in the as...Anon 11:13pm<br /><br />"SF is frankly a pain in the ass, and the only locals that really do it are the ones that MUST because they work there, or the few that LIVE there because they're sick like that."<br /><br />What on the sweet earth are you talking about!?<br /><br />CHSRA is projecting about 30,000 daily boardings in SF. Hardly millions.<br /><br />Why do people which absolutly no idea what they are talking about insist on being the most shrill and hyperbolic in the room. I you listened or (god forbid) read somthing you might learn a thing or two and (maybe... big maybe) have something relavent to add to the conversation for once.John Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-10536317105960151722009-09-25T11:33:45.384-07:002009-09-25T11:33:45.384-07:00Wow, since every Anon is clearly an engineer/railr...Wow, since every Anon is clearly an engineer/railroad expert i wonder why they don't use their real names? I'd love to look up some of their scholarly work on the suject. You know peer-reviewed journal articles and all of that sort of thing that real professionals need to do. <br /><br />I would hate to find out they were all pulling "facts" out of their arses. Or as Richard M. calls it "male answer syndrome"John Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-75309286789797839272009-09-25T10:58:28.602-07:002009-09-25T10:58:28.602-07:00@ anon @ 6:53pm -
The HSR project will deliver th...@ anon @ 6:53pm -<br /><br />The HSR project will deliver the following in the Caltrain ROW:<br /><br />- electrification<br />- positive train control<br />- quad tracks<br />- full grade separation<br /><br />Basically, everything you want "Baby Bullet II" to deliver but with state and federal authorities picking up the bill.<br /><br />It could deliver rectification of the San Bruno curve as well but <i>Caltrain</i> doesn't want to re-open negotiations with the city of San Bruno. IMHO, that's a mistake resulting from a desire to maximize stimulus funding even if it's for a 10-year old design that didn't take HSR into account.Rafaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05471957286484454765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-64014424527377496762009-09-25T09:47:19.438-07:002009-09-25T09:47:19.438-07:00grade separated 2 tracks is FAR less intrusive and...<i>grade separated 2 tracks is FAR less intrusive and utterly avoids all the negavitive impacts that the NIMBY's care about</i><br /><br />That's a really strange statement, and one that I doubt many NIMBYs would agree with. To them, the "Berlin Wall" issue is the same regardless of the number of tracks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-76962069432615949192009-09-25T00:41:22.603-07:002009-09-25T00:41:22.603-07:00The funding is not a mess, they have applied for...The funding is not a mess, they have applied for the funds, on schedule and the general feeling is that cali is most qualified to get a nice chunk.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-26941594375593870832009-09-25T00:27:38.584-07:002009-09-25T00:27:38.584-07:00Jim, the funding situation is a basket case. Have...Jim, the funding situation is a basket case. Have you not been paying attention?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-76057181964401123552009-09-24T23:41:40.924-07:002009-09-24T23:41:40.924-07:00So as the project and funding moves forward as pla...So as the project and funding moves forward as planned the deniers sound more desperate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-31657788125139507312009-09-24T23:13:50.680-07:002009-09-24T23:13:50.680-07:00"going to need quad tracks to run a non-stop ..."going to need quad tracks to run a non-stop express, to have the capacity, and to offer an equivalent level of service as a quad track HSR+Caltrain service."<br /><br />And who needs all that? Its a pipe dream that all of a sudden a million people need to get on a train to LA from SF everyday. Its just pure BS. People will get on at all station points between SF and SJ - MORE even than board directl IN SF (because SF is frankly a pain in the ass, and the only locals that really do it are the ones that MUST because they work there, or the few that LIVE there because they're sick like that. Caltrain "as is" has PLENTY of capacity - Caltrain improved (TWO TRACKS, electrified, grade separated (because grade separated 2 tracks is FAR less intrusive and utterly avoids all the negavitive impacts that the NIMBY's care about - than widened to 4 tracks. Then, come the day that Caltrain is busting at the seams over capacity a) you'll be able to rake riders over the coals for fares, thereby PAYING for the next round of improvements b) you'll have the local political support to make the next round of improvements.<br /><br />You guys REALLY need to start thinking like this as a marathon, not a sprint.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-88449461991881635342009-09-24T18:53:14.576-07:002009-09-24T18:53:14.576-07:00With ramp-metering, you can pretty much drive acro...With ramp-metering, you can pretty much drive across the Bay Bridge at 70mph during rush-hour. 50mph at a minimum. The new Bay Bridge construction has screwed up the speeds, but was that factored into the decision to replace the Bay Bridge? The years of significant disruption to Caltrain has to be cost-factored into the decision to completely rebuild the corridor with massive construction. <br /><br />What about a Baby Bullet II round of investment? Electrification; positive train control; add some new four-track sections to facilitate passing and add capacity; straighten the San Bruno curve with grade separations here and there. Complete grade separation is a luxury. Even close some of the minor crossings. This will get so much more for the taxpayer dollar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-72841694359936055302009-09-24T18:12:19.748-07:002009-09-24T18:12:19.748-07:00a non-stop Baby Bullet can make it in 45 minutes
...<i>a non-stop Baby Bullet can make it in 45 minutes</i><br /><br />And I can drive across the Bay Bridge at 70 mph.<br /><br />Neither of these facts are relevant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-61275413166305456362009-09-24T18:04:38.395-07:002009-09-24T18:04:38.395-07:00The 79mph speed limit is an arbitrary FRA rule for...<em>The 79mph speed limit is an arbitrary FRA rule for that equipment. The actual trains are capable of much faster speeds, and the FRA allows up to 125mph before mandatory grade separation</em>.<br /><br />The speed limit is for the track not for the equipment. No reason why they couldn't slap a hand car, one of those things that move because you are pumping the handle up and down, on the tracks. It's not going to go 79 MPH. There's probably a "speeder" enthusiast or two on the Peninsula who does it now and then. And a train capable of 220 MPH is going to move as fast as the hand car if there's a hand car on the track. <br /><br />They could harden the grade crossings. It still leaves them as grade crossings. Lets just say 8 Caltrains an hour, two more than currently because the faster speeds have attracted riders. 4 super expresses carrying HSR passengers. Or twice as many trains as there are now. It means the grade crossings will be closed twice as often or twice as long whichever way you want to look at it. How long does that last before local residents are clamoring for grade separation which has to be done around a railroad that is twice as busy as it is now? <br /><br /><em>a non-stop Baby Bullet can make it in 45 minutes EVEN WITH the heavy diesel equipment</em><br /><br />Okay, Caltrain needs to run a super express every 15 minutes when it collects the people transferring from the long distance train from Los Angeles. They haven't done any upgrades at all. 45 minutes means there's at least 2 super expresses on the track. Either you have to suspend local service or the super express moves as fast as the local. Should work out very well all around.Adirondacker12800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-25558775838651562662009-09-24T17:02:42.022-07:002009-09-24T17:02:42.022-07:00FRA allows up to 125mph before mandatory grade sep...<i>FRA allows up to 125mph before mandatory grade separation.</i><br /><br />The CPUC doesn't. In fact, they don't even allow grade crossings with more than two tracks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-8162512336457649162009-09-24T16:53:23.607-07:002009-09-24T16:53:23.607-07:00and will also cost the loss in HSR ridership from ...<em>and will also cost the loss in HSR ridership from adding a transfer and 10min to 15min additional travel time SF to LA-US</em>.<br /><br />Would they have to transfer at all? If there is a nice track electrified at the same standard as San Jose to Anaheim there's no reason why the doors can't pop open in San Jose, let some passengers off, let some on - ones who will be paying through the nose to experience it - then close doors close and continue onto San Francisco. It would be as <em>stupid</em> as terminating a southbound Acela in Baltimore because MARC serves Union Station in DC or terminating a northbound Acela in Trenton because NJ Transit serves Penn Station in NYC. Carry this to the extreme Acela is redundant, extend MARC one station from Perryvile MD to Newark DE and there's no need for Acela between NY and DC, there's perfectly good commuter trains between the two.Adirondacker12800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-86100082073908993172009-09-24T16:52:07.915-07:002009-09-24T16:52:07.915-07:00With lightweight EMUs, HSR is scarcely any faster ...<i>With lightweight EMUs, HSR is scarcely any faster than electrified, lightweight Caltrain equipment. It's the elephant in the room.</i><br /><br />People have clearly pointed to said elephant and said that it doesn't matter if the elephant is painted in Caltrain Livery or CAHSR livery, your technicolor pachyderm is going to need quad tracks to run a non-stop express, to have the capacity, and to offer an equivalent level of service as a quad track HSR+Caltrain service.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08878685680339441795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-14529233688999309412009-09-24T16:47:45.660-07:002009-09-24T16:47:45.660-07:00Peter, so HSR plans to run to Tamien? That's...Peter, so HSR plans to run to Tamien? That's news to me. No, Bruce McF just got it wrong.<br /><br />The current Baby Bullets already make 4-5 stop along the SF-SJ route. HSR is proposing 30 minutes for a non-stop SF-SJ service, but a non-stop Baby Bullet can make it in 45 minutes EVEN WITH the heavy diesel equipment. With lightweight EMUs, HSR is scarcely any faster than electrified, lightweight Caltrain equipment. It's the elephant in the room.Sun Rises, Sun Fallsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-87088155341813704002009-09-24T16:38:56.750-07:002009-09-24T16:38:56.750-07:00SNCF clearly can't do HSR, then. It endorsed t...<i> SNCF clearly can't do HSR, then. It endorsed the currently chosen route. </i><br /><br />No self-interest involved with SNCF's evaluation whatsoever, hmmm? <br /><br />Now if SNCF is willing to share financial risk on the building of CHSRA's route, then I'll believe that they are serious about HSR. SNCF needs to put their money where their mouth is. I strongly suspect SNCF knows the route sucks, but they are looking for some fat, risk-free contracts.Sun Rises, Sun Fallsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-28905519588002435662009-09-24T16:38:08.556-07:002009-09-24T16:38:08.556-07:00@ Sun Rises, Sun Falls
I think Bruce McF was refe...@ Sun Rises, Sun Falls<br /><br />I think Bruce McF was referring to Baby Bullet run time from Tamien to SF and vice versa, not from Diridon. Those are in fact scheduled at 66 minutes.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-54772416271638388102009-09-24T16:33:34.628-07:002009-09-24T16:33:34.628-07:00Are there any publicly accessible documents where ...Are there any publicly accessible documents where Caltrain's and CHSRA's input is documented? I'm just curious what they actually commented.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-48867555153934076102009-09-24T16:29:18.574-07:002009-09-24T16:29:18.574-07:00I don't have time to correct all of Bruce McF&...I don't have time to correct all of Bruce McF's bullsit, but the Baby Bullets make scheduled runs of 57-59 minutes between San Francisco and San Jose. Lots of schedule padding is involved, and I have been on Baby Bullets that run closer to 50 minutes.<br /><br />Where the hell do you get 67 minutes, Bruce McF? I understand, you're an economist.<br /><br />http://www.caltrain.com/pdf/Weekday_NB_08-31-2009_WEB_PRINT_PAGE_01-02.pdf<br /><br />The 79mph speed limit is an arbitrary FRA rule for that equipment. The actual trains are capable of much faster speeds, and the FRA allows up to 125mph before mandatory grade separation.Sun Rises, Sun Fallsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-72033507702333177642009-09-24T16:16:28.505-07:002009-09-24T16:16:28.505-07:00More like $10 billion on the Peninsula when all is...More like $10 billion on the Peninsula when all is said and done. Even the official budget has already doubled, and the design work is not even done yet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com