tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post3357535772867655860..comments2023-10-30T09:03:07.163-07:00Comments on California High Speed Rail Blog: LA Times On Metrolink Grade Crossing SafetyRobert Cruickshankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-7281078007804008422009-10-02T06:37:10.348-07:002009-10-02T06:37:10.348-07:00While Rafael's posting is nice, it leaves out ...While Rafael's posting is nice, it leaves out many of the details about the Buena Vista crossing.<br /><br />(type "Death on Rails LA TImes" into Google<br /><br />1) Caltrans has promised to do a grade separation for over 6 or 7 years, but always postpones it.<br />2) No warning signs or lights are visible to turning drivers, so they do not know that they are about to cross a RR crossing. The intersection, 20 feet from the crossing, is very busy and drivers are focused upon traffic,<br />3) The lights are very faint in the day, and not pointed towards turning drivers.<br />4) Bumper-to-bumper traffic backs over the tracks,and no additional time is allowed for it to clear. 4 or 5 seconds after the gate descends, a 78 MPH train arrives.<br />5) Burbank WAS going to install a "No Turn-Train Coming" sign, but CPUC delayed it.<br />6Metrolink and Burbank ignored several simple, inexpensive, yet effective improvements to this crossing, resulting in additional deaths. <br />7) Grade separations are nice, but much too expensive for most crossings. Much,much less expensive quad gates with bright LED lights and lengthened timing, as done in Germany, would make our rails much more safe.<br />8) While much has been said about the train engineer in Chattsworth being distracted by text messaging, little has been said who this accident was very similar to an earlier one in Silver Spring, Maryland. If they had the second yellow warning signal AFTER or AT the station, instead of before it, He most likely would not have left the station, going around a blind curve, if he knew that he had to stop in 1/2 a mile. He would have waited and finished his texting.<br />9) Most of the current Metrolink board is not up to the job of running a safe system, They hide behind PR people and lawyers, spending a lot on that instead of using the same funding to make improvements.James Osbornnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-61416666812099083772009-10-01T20:38:26.248-07:002009-10-01T20:38:26.248-07:00"I hope that "Jim's" mother or ..."I hope that "Jim's" mother or wife gets to be "elderly" and "confused" and becomes a "dumbass" like him and that she meets an unpleasant death and "Jim" remembers his words.<br /><br />If he were better educated about railroads, and if he took the time to read the article, he would learn that no warning signs faced either driver, the batery powered lights are dim and hard to see during the daylight, and that this deadly crossing is next to a very busy intersection that has big trucks that block the crossing. <br /><br />Why has it had so many accidents and most other crossings do not? The article pointed out that most accidents could be prevented if only these repeat offenders were fixed.<br /><br />Grade separations are very nice, but at $40,000,000 or more, cost too much. Europeans have effective Quad gates, traffic lights and cops have beter lights,and most of the needed safety improvements are not expensive. <br /><br />Metrolink does not need tons of federal dollars,they need to start to care,and first do a lot of simple improvements that do not cost much.Sally Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17569144946503841107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-76856979012953463222009-09-30T12:18:44.920-07:002009-09-30T12:18:44.920-07:00Interesting blog. Just found it in a Google search...Interesting blog. Just found it in a Google search on CA HSR. Lots of good videos and info here. It seems most articles and comments are very much in favor of hsr and some are quite vulgar and rely on stereotypes. Also, this blog seems focused on Northern CA. I live along the 15 in San Diego. They're starting public scoping meetings in October. Those of us interested in our community's futures along the 15 in SD will be attending and commenting during the EIR/S process. <br /><br />I'm not necessarily against HSR but the #s of homes and businesses between Escondido and Miramar that are less than 100' from the freeway are numerous. Go to Google maps and look for yourself. Will they do eminent domain or "mitigate" by building soundwalls and providing triple paned windows? Seems better to just tunnel and/or use existing rail tracks. You're talking about quality of life, property values, etc. <br /><br />Besides, is it really wise to do these bonds and spend all this $ on HSR right now when the Delta needs to be fixed first? Without water, there won't be any (more) passengers to ride hsr or buy the condos or work at the restaurants that hsr will demand be redeveloped at the stops. Also, I'm concerned about the overall cost and financing. I don't buy the argument that we need government spending to boost the economy. Especially, when it was the bankers, financiers, and government who got us into the mess we're in. But that's a different discussion.Community Memberhttp://www.sabre-springs.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-16510183233298566382009-09-30T00:35:48.320-07:002009-09-30T00:35:48.320-07:00"No one has answered my question about what t..."No one has answered my question about what the liability and other costs currently are that are being paid by taxpayers due to incidents caused by the grade-level nature of many crossings currently in place."<br /><br />Very little. Grade crossings are safer than highway intersections. Unless an accident is the fault of the train, which it essentially *never* is at grade crossings, the taxpayer pays nothing. <br /><br />Well, to be precise the taxpayer pays the legal costs of defending against frivolous lawsuits, which I think is a known number and matter of record for Metrolink. And the taxpayer pays for the hard-to-measure cost of train delays. And the taxpayer pays for train repairs when the at-fault party is destitute, which is also hard to add up. The main costs are not simple "costs to the taxpayer", they're social costs.neroden@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07475686367097445497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-66419870166794602092009-09-29T13:44:04.717-07:002009-09-29T13:44:04.717-07:00Man, the LA Times has been really attacking Metrol...Man, the LA Times has been really attacking Metrolink with articles like, "Boo-hoo my stupid wife decided to cross the tracks to save five minutes." <br /><br />I wonder what their agenda is. Highways are deadlier per passenger mile than any railroad.Spokkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03244298044953214810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-84674212228710389402009-09-29T12:25:38.842-07:002009-09-29T12:25:38.842-07:00If they were to doubledeck the freeway to gain cap...<i>If they were to doubledeck the freeway to gain capacity they would need to raise these overpasses anyway.</i><br /><br />Why should they ever double-deck the freeway, other than to satisfy some highway lobbyist?Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-34785023373821123602009-09-29T06:46:08.284-07:002009-09-29T06:46:08.284-07:00@ J -
grade separation + fences (incl. on overpas...@ J -<br /><br />grade separation + fences (incl. on overpasses) = ROW that is really hard to trespass onto. Suicidal persons may look for other ways to slip off their mortal coils or preferably, someone will reach them first so they can get the mental health care they need.<br /><br />As far as the visual barrier goes, I understand the perceptual/emotional argument. What you fail to acknowledge is that Caltrain already bisects traffic flows in the peninsula today, which is what the 98% of residents who didn't buy property immediately next to the tracks care about most.<br /><br />@ anon @ 11:27pm -<br /><br />please provide a link, e.g. via Google Maps Streetview, of a single overpass on 101 in the SF peninsula that already has 45 feet of vertical clearance today. That's how much is needed to support train tracks stacked above the fast/carpool lanes. <br /><br />Note that there is a minimum vertical curve radius for road overpasses, otherwise bigrigs would get stuck.<br /><br />If you sacrifice traffic lanes, implementation is straightforward, just dig a shallow trench at the existing overpasses to let trains pass underneath. The problem is getting Caltrans to sacrifice traffic lanes. Hell will freeze over before that happens.Rafaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05471957286484454765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-5068148580808537582009-09-28T23:41:06.765-07:002009-09-28T23:41:06.765-07:00@ J What I have heard is Jim complain that people ...@ J <i>What I have heard is Jim complain that people who die at crossings deserve to die. Putting aside whether such an assessment is accurate or fair, it misses the point of my post entirely</i><br /><br />as you missed the point of my posts as well. At no point did I say anyone "deserved to die"<br /><br />What I said was, <br /><br />a) its not metrolinks fault if someone goes around a gate and gets hit or commits suicide.<br /><br />b) people who don't pay attention do a,b and c, aren't going to pay attention to d,e,and f either because that's the kind of people they are,<br /><br />and<br />c) again: here's the thought process..<br /><br />" the gates are down and the lights are flashing and trains are really big and they smash things so therefore I should drive around the gates"<br /><br />now, do you see the disconnect? In my day we called that having a screw loose.<br /><br />Its like blaming the sf zoo for the death of the drunk guys who taunted the tiger at the sf zoo and got gobbled up or the guy who climbed into the grizzly bear exhibit this weekend at the sf zoo.<br /><br />Saying it's their own responsibility is not saying they deserve to die. This is the type of disconnected thinking that's causing of the problems in our society.<br /><br /><br />and I could be wrong but your concern about safety and the suggestion that burying the trains is the safe answer compared to elevating the trains, sounds an awful lot like thinly veiled PA nimbyism to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-47149277758789339452009-09-28T23:27:16.295-07:002009-09-28T23:27:16.295-07:00The hsr trains on 101 would not flyover the freewa...The hsr trains on 101 would not flyover the freeway overpasses but the contrary. You have to raise the highway overpasses. Some of them are high enough already. If they were to doubledeck the freeway to gain capacity they would need to raise these overpasses anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-34271601472641324712009-09-28T23:25:00.645-07:002009-09-28T23:25:00.645-07:00@rafael "without rail tracks, the TTC is not...@rafael <i> "without rail tracks, the TTC is nothing more than a super-expensive bus terminal. It wouldn't implement prop H(1999) and it wouldn't achieve the passenger throughput required to revitalize that part of town"</i><br /><br />rafael, now you know all you are doing is taunting me when you say things like that. I'l let it slide this time cuz I'm too tired. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-65206629040939425712009-09-28T21:16:16.724-07:002009-09-28T21:16:16.724-07:00No one has answered my question about what the lia...No one has answered my question about what the liability and other costs currently are that are being paid by taxpayers due to incidents caused by the grade-level nature of many crossings currently in place. Many responders are assuming that a grade-elevated solution will result in equally diminished liability and costs to a tunneled solution. Does anyone have a study on that? I find that hard to fathom given the visual presence an elevated train would continue to present to drivers and to troubled teens and others looking for a fence to hop to commit suicide. I am interested in any data that might bear on my hypothesis.<br /><br />What I have heard is Jim complain that people who die at crossings deserve to die. Putting aside whether such an assessment is accurate or fair, it misses the point of my post entirely. Regardless of how deserving the victims are or how much fault you would like to subscribe to them, the train and other agencies face liability from lawyers who can always think of creative lawsuits to bring. Witnesses to these accidents are left emotionally scarred and dazed for days or even months. These are real costs that are divorced from whatever Darwinian pleasure some appear to take from these tragedies.<br /><br />I also hear Matt suggesting that a barrier would be no more divisive than the current grade-level crossings. My point was that a visually impenetrable wall will visually and psychologically divide communities much more effectively than they are currently. Matt’s suggestion also misunderstands the fundamental renaissance in “mobility” and connectedness which would be permitted should the tracks be buried. (Peter’s comment about the Caltrain ROW already being “pre-blighted” in the same way as 101 makes the same mistake. 101 is cutoff almost completely from surrounding neighborhoods by tall soundwalls. Much of the current Caltrain route has nothing remotely this imposing around it.<br /><br />Finally, some have responded to suggestions for alternatives to the current de facto plan with questions such as, “who is going to pay for it,” or “how are we going to get people to the stations”? These are good questions, but they apply equally to any of these alternatives. Electrifying Caltrain will take a serious slice out of the budget. And getting people from home to station to destination and back will remain a challenge. Advocates of CHSR need to understand that the fight is not over. The proposition victory was a big step forward, but many battles remain, and if constituents’ and politicians’ questions aren’t answered satisfactorily, the vision will never be realized.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03387362625469678687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-39163864323045068582009-09-28T16:08:03.229-07:002009-09-28T16:08:03.229-07:00@ anon @ 1:23pm -
without rail tracks, the TTC is...@ anon @ 1:23pm -<br /><br />without rail tracks, the TTC is nothing more than a super-expensive bus terminal. It wouldn't implement prop H(1999) and it wouldn't achieve the passenger throughput required to revitalize that part of town.<br /><br />It's laudable that SF has scraped together the funding for the extra-fancy above-ground portion but other cities - including SJ - will also have to open their wallets if they want extravagant stations.Rafaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05471957286484454765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-79443062329448848862009-09-28T15:31:28.243-07:002009-09-28T15:31:28.243-07:00Really ought to do the four-track (or wider in pla...Really ought to do the four-track (or wider in places if appropriate) Burbank - LA Union trench ASAP. Many of the major grade crossing accidents, needed for HSR, two Metrolink lines and Amtrak on the same corridor, no arguments regarding location.neroden@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07475686367097445497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-74878305360381262282009-09-28T13:23:27.117-07:002009-09-28T13:23:27.117-07:00Without Caltrain electrification, the Transbay Ter...<i> Without Caltrain electrification, the Transbay Terminal Center in SF makes no sense.</i><br /><br />The Transbay Terminal Center makes vastly more sense that the San Jose Diridon station, regardless of whether Caltrain electrification happens or not. Unlike Diridon, the TTC has actually financed itself through property redevelopment. It makes obvious sense to connect rail to the TTC, but it is actually viable without it. Compare that to the proposed Diridon mega-station that appears to just be seeking public funds to enshrine Rod Diridoni.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-17623893620740250402009-09-28T10:18:03.085-07:002009-09-28T10:18:03.085-07:00@ anon @ 9:19am -
HSR is feasible in freeway medi...@ anon @ 9:19am -<br /><br />HSR is feasible in freeway medians provided they're available, wide enough, flat enough and straight enough. Chances are that most of the LA-San Diego segment will leverage freeway medians - because there's no other choice.<br /><br />In the SF peninsula, the 101 median is not available. Giving up traffic lanes would mean robbing Peter to pay Paul and unlikely to meet with approval from Caltrans.<br /><br />50 miles of aerial structures, including many extra-tall (50') sections where trains would fly over existing road overpasses, would cost as much or more than upgrading the Caltrain ROW yet do nothing for that commuter railroad. The visual and noise impacts would be nonzero, though less contentious.<br /><br />Keep in mind that Santa Clara county has not and will not cough up its 500 million share of Caltrain electrification if HSR falls through. Its top priority is the BART extension because large numbers of commuters into San Jose and Santa Clara hail from the East Bay. Without Caltrain electrification, the Transbay Terminal Center in SF makes no sense.Rafaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05471957286484454765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-30857600767523547552009-09-28T09:33:02.847-07:002009-09-28T09:33:02.847-07:00Ahh, once again, the "Build HSR on the Freewa...Ahh, once again, the "Build HSR on the Freeways" theory. And with a novel (?) argument.<br /><br />So, while locating HSR on the freeways would grade-separate HSR, it would do nada to grade-separate Caltrain. Who's going to pony up the money for that?<br /><br />How, pray tell me, will Caltrain get the funding or electrification without HSR? Hint: They can't.<br /><br />How are you going to build stations on the median? How are people going to access the stations?<br /><br />These questions have all already been hashed out, and simply restating your claim doesn't do anything to change the result.<br /><br />And btw, are you trying to argue that the Caltrain ROW is not "pre-blighted"?Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-42777759005436979052009-09-28T09:19:12.094-07:002009-09-28T09:19:12.094-07:00Grade separation can be best achieved by relocatin...Grade separation can be best achieved by relocating the hsr to freeway alignments. Tunnels in most instances are too expensive but elevateds are blighting. Freeways are de facto blighted so no problem there.<br /><br />Reconfiguring the freeways to accomodate the hsr is a price worth paying. It is an idea that can be sold to motorists because the passengers on the hsr trains would otherwise be in cars on those very same freeeways they are following. HSR along freeways is the the equivalent of adding freeway lanes but much more environmentally friendlyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-22950731023381427552009-09-28T09:13:11.451-07:002009-09-28T09:13:11.451-07:00@ anon Yes, lets spend money on grade separated cr...@ anon <i>Yes, lets spend money on grade separated crossings, we don't need high speed rail to get that done - its just another false selling point the HSR huggers try to shove down our throats</i><br /><br />Its a vast conspiracy designed to make you mad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-68829873637258447332009-09-28T09:05:06.854-07:002009-09-28T09:05:06.854-07:00About GPS use.
I come from the aviation field whe...About GPS use.<br /><br />I come from the aviation field where GPS is seen as the creme-de-la-creme for navigation AND as the future basis for air traffic control.<br /><br />I guess that it wouldn't be as useful in railroading, since it requires line-of-sight to both receive the satellite signal and to send information back to ground stations. Unless you want to use a satellite to receive and relay the positional information, I agree that GPS would not be a good solution.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-28697589178148095922009-09-28T09:03:24.407-07:002009-09-28T09:03:24.407-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-61337963158882545082009-09-28T08:59:11.547-07:002009-09-28T08:59:11.547-07:00@ Jim
You're assuming there is any sort of th...@ Jim<br /><br />You're assuming there is any sort of thought process involved other than "OMG! I'm late for my hair appointment! Can't be delayed by anything!"<br /><br />I think we should simply play the video from Top Gear you posted at every crossing on infinite loop.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00326948451529910432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-29258176241294885472009-09-28T05:01:26.364-07:002009-09-28T05:01:26.364-07:00"Travis, you're drinking the Koolaid - th..."Travis, you're drinking the Koolaid - the freeways and airports aren't going away with HSR" <br /><br />I never said they would. But massive expansions of them might be avoided.<br /><br />"trains move only in straight lines."<br /><br />So Tron is a big part of the alternate universe you come from?<br /><br />"Unless you live IN a train station, then you'll ALWAYS find yourself on a road after the train."<br /><br />Well, unless you took BART, the MTA or a bus to that station. But even if you did drive, short trips to a station is better than long trips to another city.<br /><br />"HSR is just a proposition to TRIPLICATE the raping of our openspace lands and neighborhoods with a new and ultra luxurious (ultra selfish) form transportation superhighway."<br /><br />How is HSR "raping" openspace and neighborhoods? How is it "selfish?"<br /><br />"Single occupancy drivers? Right you are, because people need to get to places. And whats needed (and what is now on the cusp of this green revolution) is single occupancy, alternative energy cars."<br /><br />Uh, so we'll end up with huge clogged freeways full of very clean cars.<br /><br />"The traffic congestion isn't created by long distance travlers, its created by short distance commuters."<br /><br />I take it you've never driven over the Grapevine, been in SFO or LAX.<br /><br />"And HSR proponents are apparently too schizophrenic to stick to their OWN story that HSR is meant NOT to replace commute, but to CREATE MORE long distance travel."<br /><br />Particular elements of CAHSR will help with commute traffic however I find your idea that it will "create more long distance travel" to be a claim worth substantiating.<br /><br />"We serve our environemnt and are scarce mass transit budgets better by making better use of our highways, by reinventing the automobile, and improving rail for greener ways of transporting goods over long distances."<br /><br />No one is suggesting that urban mass transit be ignored. Both should be pursued at the same time. As for greener ways to move long distances.....what is better at that than HSR?<br /><br />"HSR is a bloated expensive novelty idea that uses all the right buzz word PR, and attempts to play in to all the fears of today (gas crisis, global warming, TOD) while being NOTHING by the opposite of what it claims, and in fact is nothing but the poster child for conspicuous consumption."<br /><br />I take it you have some evidence that it isn't useful and environmentally friendly while being a "poster child" for conspicuous consumption or are YOU the one that's drunk some Koolaid?Travis NDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01034497512063308638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-78826219586459635192009-09-27T23:48:21.496-07:002009-09-27T23:48:21.496-07:00here's the thought process..
" the gates...here's the thought process..<br /><br />" the gates are down and the lights are flashing and trains are really big and they smash things so therefore I should drive around the gates"<br /><br />now, do you see the disconnect? In my day we called that having a screw loose.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-50184554558472336902009-09-27T23:45:25.427-07:002009-09-27T23:45:25.427-07:00people who go around gates and get hit by trains d...people who go around gates and get hit by trains don't read signs, clocks, timers, or anything else, you could put a dancing elephant in a pink tutu out there and they'd still get run over.<br /><br />Theses are the same people who look at you standing next to a clock on the wall, and ask you what time it is.<br /><br /><br />Okay if you ever grew up in the country, and you had cats, country cats, that kinds that always have a batch of kittens around, then you know how some of the kittens and cats, are really sharp, they hunt, they're quick, they're chatty, etc,<br />and some of the cats, just sit on the porch and stare like those inbred or sort downs syndrome hillbilly types, I don't know what you call it exaclty. well people are just like those cats.<br /><br />Some of them are quick, thinking, sharp individuals, and some of them, just aren't.<br /><br />...those are the ones who get run over by trains.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-55335499378421873262009-09-27T23:35:32.605-07:002009-09-27T23:35:32.605-07:00@J: Last I heard the peninsula route was going to ...@J: Last I heard the peninsula route <i>was</i> going to be penetrable. I think that is the whole point of elevating it, ya know, so the cars can go under.<br /><br />Currently people are not supposed to be crossing the tracks except the designated crossings, where they will be able to cross...so don't act like people are losing mobility because of the HSR route. <br /><br />As for tunnel vs. elevated...both should have no liability for grade accidents since there is no grade crossing....and that is what this post was about.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06621524688754424783noreply@blogger.com