tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post4708430285560542807..comments2023-10-30T09:03:07.163-07:00Comments on California High Speed Rail Blog: June CHSRA Board Meeting Today 10AMRobert Cruickshankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-66318464547431718172009-06-05T14:39:14.888-07:002009-06-05T14:39:14.888-07:00Ahhh... there's always that population that&#...Ahhh... there's always that population that's prone to doing things like listening to rush limbaugh and taking him seriously among other things. I call them "stupid people" there's a lot of them. It's unfortunate they are allowed to vote and reproduce at will.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-34177658522251905122009-06-05T12:57:36.705-07:002009-06-05T12:57:36.705-07:00@Jim: That's why Robert uses "denier,&quo...@Jim: That's why Robert uses "denier," they're in denial.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14186947428645370594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-5791789145498787082009-06-05T12:48:49.021-07:002009-06-05T12:48:49.021-07:00Well outside of the nimby types they DO understand...Well outside of the nimby types they DO understand it...And thats why they are trying like hell to stop it..They want you to use more oil..Thank the ReasonFoundation and the other rightlobby types as to why you cannot buy that HSR ticket for your Nov trip.YESONHSRnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-50590870297130804342009-06-05T12:00:46.425-07:002009-06-05T12:00:46.425-07:00all I know is i have to be at san pedro for a crui...all I know is i have to be at san pedro for a cruise in november and once again, I have to schlepp out to the airport and waste 2 hours just to get on a one hour flight - not to mention risking my life- ( always love those jumbo jet disintegrates over the atlantic stories) then I have to get ground transport to san pedro. If we had HSR I could walk down the street 15 minutes prior to dep. and be in ANA or IRV a couple hours later. Id still ahve to get ground transport but the overall trip would be faster, safer, FAR more COMFY and more pleasant. Why can't the deniers see this? I don't understand it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-62595526988712319702009-06-05T11:45:54.262-07:002009-06-05T11:45:54.262-07:00Amtrak's mission is to provide intercity rail....Amtrak's mission is to provide intercity rail. You get a better deal the longer you ride. Prices are high for short trips to discourage commuters from taking seats away from long-distance travelers. <br /><br />It works the same way here in Southern California. My first choice for a trip between Anaheim and Los Angeles is always Metrolink. It's about 7-8 bucks one way on weekdays and 5-6 bucks one-way on weekends. Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner is $10 during the slow season, $12 during the peak season, and $15 during holidays. <br /><br />The only reason I take the Surfliner is when Metrolink isn't running during the midday or evening hours.<br /><br />But the Surfliner is really for people going to San Diego or Santa Barbara. Your per mile cost is going to be less on those longer trips than shorter trips.Spokkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03244298044953214810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-60358849686351292062009-06-05T11:44:08.968-07:002009-06-05T11:44:08.968-07:00The fare structure will be very flexible just as i...The fare structure will be very flexible just as it is now. It won't be "the fare" it will be "fares based on availability" Rail fares - with the exception of the upgrades are just like airfares. I know I've been over this before.... there are "fare buckets" generally there is a "y" fare in both rail and air and this is the "regular fare - not discounted and no restriction, fully refundable. then you have the discounted fares A, B, and D fare buckets based on first come first served, the seats are the same - coach - stop me if you already know this but --- say theres 100 seats they may price 25 at D 25 at B 25 at A and 25 at Y - D is the lowest, early birds get the worm. If there is no demand, the fare stays low to entice buyers, if there is high demand the fare buckets sell out and go up to the next highest. high demand High price. Desperate at the last minute, High price. Smart and on top of things, plan ahead ( you have your shit together) you get the deals. Then you have classes of service - upgrades- business and first - which are charged as an "accommodation" Generally you get the lowest coach fare when you upgrade D+ accom charge. On longer haul services, accoms also have their won fare buckets. On local trains its a flat fee on top of the coach fare. The exception to fare buckets is on commuter and regional ( think capital corridor and surfliner. Those use a different structure. San Joaquins use the long distance fare structure and a HSR system is likely going to use the fare bucket system just like the airlines. and three classes of service. plus there's the california rail pass, the usa rail pass, monthlies and multi ride tickets and HSR will need to be integrated into these as well. I would not worry about fares. FAres are the least of hsr's problems. I promise you the fares will be competitive. Fares are also subject to taking into account the local market. Why does it cost 26 dollars to go from sf to sac but only 10 dollars to go from sf to stockton? the sac crowd is a more upscale (choke) crowd and the people we service to stockton are more, how can I say it... Have you eve been to one of those check cashing places on market street? So all that will be taken into account. Fares will be very competitive needless to say.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-56556434563166350262009-06-05T11:33:20.219-07:002009-06-05T11:33:20.219-07:00To add to what Adirondacker and Arcady said, I'...To add to what Adirondacker and Arcady said, I'll note that Amtrak is often not any faster than express trains on commuter rail.<br /><br />From New York to Croton-Harmon, both Amtrak and the Metro-North's express trains take 43 minutes, because Amtrak isn't electrified and the Metro-North is. Off-peak, this trip costs $30 on Amtrak, and $7.50 on Metro-North. From New York to New Haven, where both services are electrified but limited in speed due to curves, the Regional takes 1:34 and costs $65, or $34 if you're lucky enough to find the cheap trains; Metro-North takes 1:40 and costs $14 off-peak. Even from New York to Trenton, where straight tracks enable Amtrak to go fast, Keystone trains take 50 minutes, compared with 71 for the New Jersey Transit; the Keystone costs $51, the NJT $12.50.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-19115078030432367412009-06-05T10:42:26.169-07:002009-06-05T10:42:26.169-07:00Regarding the $55 fare-
HSR actually proves in it...Regarding the $55 fare-<br /><br />HSR actually proves in its 2008 business plan that a $77 fare will be much more profitable so this is probably the fare structure to expect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-28736890816024756572009-06-05T10:38:26.912-07:002009-06-05T10:38:26.912-07:00Couple of thoughts on all this:
1. As I have repe...Couple of thoughts on all this:<br /><br />1. As I have repeatedly said on this site over the last year, <b>do not count on a $55 ticket</b>. What we have every reason to expect is that HSR fares will be competitive with airlines and affordable to the masses, just as they are around the world.<br /><br />2. We've always expected that HSR would have commuter aspects. It makes sense for the system to have that functionality. However, we need to guard against the state legislature's efforts to gut HSR and turn it into a strictly commuter system (I'm looking at you, Alan Lowenthal).<br /><br />3. Spokker is making some good points about the potential difficulties in Anaheim. I can envision that being a nasty battle since it's totally unlike the Peninsula - up north they have ample ROW and very few takings will be needed; down south there's barely any ROW.Robert Cruickshankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-276334186272699822009-06-05T08:33:30.132-07:002009-06-05T08:33:30.132-07:00As someone from back east, I can tell you that whi...As someone from back east, I can tell you that while Amtrak is generally an option, it's often significantly more expensive (by a factor of 2 or 3) compared to local commuter rail. If you really want to take Amtrak from New York to Yonkers, you can, but it would cost you $20-27, rather $6-7.75 on Metro North, specifically to discourage commuters. There are some places where that's not the case though, notably Boston-Providence, where Amtrak and commuter rail fares are not so far apart (CR is 7.75, Amtrak can be as low as 9.60 with discounts), and the Amtrak is both much faster (40 minutes instead of 70) and much more comfortable (the train doors close! all by themselves!) and a significant number of people do take Amtrak.crzwdjkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394805356595604336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-20220003234582539462009-06-05T07:59:07.492-07:002009-06-05T07:59:07.492-07:00@Anon- I never considered al of that - especially...@Anon- I never considered al of that - especially the those fre transfers ( we don't have them in sf cuz muni isn't in our loop - dont ask me why) and yes the gw points and actually i lot of people on all the routes just really like our "california cars" for comfort. A lot of more unfamiliar travelers also seem to like the idea that they feel less "on thier own" using amtrak than some other agencies.<br /><br />Its very strange to watch that meeting with all the details and plans and such and compare it to the nimby's in PA version of "the project is already dead" I mean are we talking about the same project?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-48306512637644219982009-06-05T07:52:30.941-07:002009-06-05T07:52:30.941-07:00@Adiron- Wow , I'm going to print that and sa...@Adiron- Wow , I'm going to print that and save it in case I ever get around to making that trip to new york I want to take.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-71055942076604530132009-06-05T07:24:38.710-07:002009-06-05T07:24:38.710-07:00the economic crisis punched a hole in the taiwan H...the economic crisis punched a hole in the taiwan HSR ridership. it's nowhere near as bad as california right now, but i suspect the general arc matches the american drop in airplane ridership and vehicle miles driven during the same period. <br /><br />the difference is that the taiwan HSR sucked up nearly all the inter-island plane travel and a significant chunk of the long-distance buses. people just aren't traveling as much, or else they're riding the slow train (which is itself way faster and better maintained than amtrak - no fault to amtrak, taiwan's government is just willing to pay to have a first-world train system - and increasingly electrified as well). so any drop in travel overall is going to manifest itself as a drop in HSR.無名 - wu minghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01078479850722724885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-6449134672669626242009-06-05T01:54:12.267-07:002009-06-05T01:54:12.267-07:00If you take Amtrak from SF to SJ, you are entitled...If you take Amtrak from SF to SJ, you are entitled to a $2 discount on a $10 BART ticket, plus two free $1.75-value two-day transfers for AC transit or VTA (which amount to a pass for light rail as they never get taken), and 200+ AGR points (1000 of which will get you a free trip anywhere in the state). Add it all up and it can be cheaper than Caltrain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-60542304494240579702009-06-05T01:47:31.504-07:002009-06-05T01:47:31.504-07:00Any of you who may be from back east - correct me ...<em>Any of you who may be from back east - correct me if Im wrong but aren't there like 1000 ways to get around the NJ NY long island area</em>? <br /><br />Yes and no, it depends on where you are going, how much you want to spend, how much time you have to fritter away and if you want to game the system. <br /><br />You are in Macy's Herald Square Store and you want to get to Jamaica. You can take the F train, if your objective is to get to the LIRR station it's a bit of hike from the F train station. Or you could take the E train which does go to the Jamaica LIRR station. Or change from the F to the E out in Queens. Or you could take the LIRR. After that you start getting into railfan trips that use the J or the Z train to get to Jamaica. There's very likely a way to do it by bus, with lots of transfers. E and the F train don't go to Flushing but the 7 train does. So does the LIRR. . . <br /><br />You are in Macy's Herald Square and you want to get to Newark. You could take PATH to Journal Square and change to the train going to Newark. Or you could get on NJ Transit. Amtrak goes there but they won't sell you a ticket. There's a bus from the Port Authority. Just like Jamaica there's many ways to get there by bus but it takes a lot of transfers. There is a bus from Journal Square to the far end of Newark that passes through Penn Station Newark. It might make sense if you were pinching pennies and wanted to get from Newark to Journal Square. All of those options are at Penn Station, which is on the East Side of downtown Newark. If you want to get to the North Side of downtown Newark, Midtown Direct trains take you to the Broad Street Station. As does the bus from the Port Authority. <br /><br />You are in Macy's Herald Square and you want to go to Yonkers. You could take Metro North from Grand Central but the walk from Herald Square to Grand Cenral is a long one, so you would probably use the subway to get to Grand Central. If you wanted to save money on the Metro North fare you could take the 1 train all the way up to the Bronx and change to Metro North at Marble Hill. Buses from Yonkers go the end of the subway line. Amtrak serves Yonkers but they won't sell you a ticket for Penn. Station to Yonkers. . . <br /><br />Once you get past the end of the subway things get slow. For instance you can get to the Summit NJ train station from Manhattan without getting on a NJ Transit train. Three seat ride from Herald Square. It would be cheap but it would take hours. A four seat ride, changing buses in Irvington Center, would save ten minutes. A Midtown Direct train gets you there in 50 minutes on a local and 40 on an express. <br /><br />You can game the system. Amtrak won't sell you a ticket between Penn Station and Yonkers. They will sell you a very expensive ticket from Newark to Yonkers. A LIRR ticket between Penn Station and Woodside is probably good for three or four rides, the conductors don't get around fast enough to collect the ticket... <br /><br />You can have fast, you can have cheap, you can have good ( one seat ride ) but rarely does it all come together.Adirondackernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-51412946518891985792009-06-05T01:19:17.844-07:002009-06-05T01:19:17.844-07:00Metrolink is close to being extended to Redlands a...Metrolink is close to being extended to Redlands and Perris.<br /><br />Redlands really wants it but the Perris extension is running into some NIMBY bullshit.Spokkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03244298044953214810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-27371462970229144412009-06-05T01:13:38.136-07:002009-06-05T01:13:38.136-07:00I've only ridden metrolink once. from burbank...I've only ridden metrolink once. from burbank airport. I wish they'd get it out to palm springs. I wish someone would bring a train ( besides the sunset 3 days a week) to palm springs. I did here that amtrak told coachella valley if they build their multi modal that we will bring them more trains. until I get some high spped though Ill have to keep flying. Watch out for the nazi tsa at palm springs airport though. * billion dollars worth of high tech security machines and just dying to find an excuse to use them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-59678205549284882562009-06-05T01:04:28.160-07:002009-06-05T01:04:28.160-07:00Only if you have a monthly pass.
Surfliner ticke...Only if you have a monthly pass. <br /><br />Surfliner tickets can be used on any Metrolink train, but why would you want to? There were once some foreign tourists I saw who got on a Metrolink train with Amtrak tickets. The conductor didn't even take their tickets and told them to keep them and have a nice time in America.Spokkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03244298044953214810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-51402811366269411562009-06-05T00:56:35.346-07:002009-06-05T00:56:35.346-07:00you know you can use your metrolink and surfliner ...you know you can use your metrolink and surfliner tickets interhcangeablyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-4171423339602757962009-06-05T00:54:01.659-07:002009-06-05T00:54:01.659-07:00It's not even like Amtrak is cheap. It's n...It's not even like Amtrak is cheap. It's not terribly overpriced but it ain't a bargain either.Spokkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03244298044953214810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-5265850132418835792009-06-05T00:41:40.596-07:002009-06-05T00:41:40.596-07:00( now, if amtrak were to get the operating contra...( now, if amtrak were to get the operating contract for hsr we would bring aalllllll those loyal customers with us starting day one - built in success right off the bat!.. I'm just sayin'....)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-92195387931576048742009-06-05T00:39:55.301-07:002009-06-05T00:39:55.301-07:00It also never ceases to amaze me how many people t...It also never ceases to amaze me how many people take the variety of bus train bus combinations hither and yon, likes its nothing, including that hellish las vegas trip. 13 hours including the five hour bus ride through death valley adjacent. You know what else is screaming success..... our yosemite service.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-6190269259167009302009-06-05T00:36:09.146-07:002009-06-05T00:36:09.146-07:00It is but who am to tell them what to do. A lot o...It is but who am to tell them what to do. A lot of them say they like amtrak better. (sometimes I'm surprised at how much people like us ...i'm like "really?" but that's why I know that the hsr is going to be successful. the nimby's are underestimating how much people actually enjoy train travel once they get a taste.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-40514367736032221242009-06-05T00:29:55.389-07:002009-06-05T00:29:55.389-07:00as for that train requirement. I know all tricks...as for that train requirement. I know all tricks of how to do it from home without the help of an agent who knows all the tricks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-52075945771615748662009-06-05T00:28:06.791-07:002009-06-05T00:28:06.791-07:00Okay, well, yes you can. the bus takes you from...Okay, well, yes you can. the bus takes you from SFC to EMY then the next capitol train takes you from EMY to SJC. and yes they travel that way. believe it or not. My fingers have been typing on the big train ticket producing device for many years. i can get you from Nacogdoches to Niagara Falls too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com