tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post496079665386252499..comments2023-10-30T09:03:07.163-07:00Comments on California High Speed Rail Blog: AB 3034 Passes the SenateRobert Cruickshankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-32209704312314212482008-08-08T16:40:00.000-07:002008-08-08T16:40:00.000-07:00anon 9:14,Did you say a couple of billions is goin...anon 9:14,<BR/>Did you say a couple of billions is going to be put down at Diridon Station in downtown San Jose? To this I say "GREAT!" Although now a citizen of Gilroy, I'm a San Jose native who's first interest is downtown SJ redevelopment. I know your post was meant to be negative, but hopefully you're right. Can't wait for that grand development down at Diridon/Arena (hopefully it will include a Major League Ballpark as well).Tony D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03392232221747908883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-53204483598643325482008-08-08T13:38:00.000-07:002008-08-08T13:38:00.000-07:00spokker - I think you're actually right that even ...spokker - I think you're actually right that even with the enormous cost overruns, the benefit-cost ratio on the Big Dig is not nearly as bad as one might think (though probably still less than 1, especially in comparison to the alternative which would be congestion pricing). The main problem right now, however, is that the Turnpike Authority can't make payments on all the Big Dig debt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-73335530832206499362008-08-08T13:20:00.000-07:002008-08-08T13:20:00.000-07:00I wonder how many Bostonians are complaining about...I wonder how many Bostonians are complaining about the Big Dig now, considering how much of an effect it had on reducing traffic.Spokkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03244298044953214810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-29437663287271270002008-08-08T11:09:00.000-07:002008-08-08T11:09:00.000-07:00Robert's right on this one: comparing HSR to the B...Robert's right on this one: comparing HSR to the Big Dig is absurd. The Big Dig was really an unprecedented project - what they were trying to do, the environment in which they were trying to do it, the techniques they were using...most of this stuff had never been done before. Just look at the summary below. HSR, in contrast, has already been built in over a dozen countries, and there's really nothing high tech or exotic about it at all (it just seems like it must be exotic/high tech because it goes so fast). It's really just conventional electrified rail built to good standards with no curves below a certain radius and a much higher allowable maximum grade (because HSR trainsets have good power-to-weight ratios). Very standard stuff. Contrast that with the Big Dig:<BR/><BR/><I>The downtown area through which the tunnels were to be dug was largely landfill, and included existing subway lines as well as innumerable pipes and utility lines that would have to be replaced or moved...<BR/><BR/>Reworking such a busy corridor without seriously restricting traffic flow required a number of state-of-the-art construction techniques. Because the old elevated highway (which remained in operation throughout the construction process) rested on pylons located throughout the designated dig area, engineers first utilized slurry wall techniques to create 120 ft.-deep concrete walls upon which the highway could rest. These concrete walls also stabilized the sides of the site, preventing cave-ins during the excavation process.<BR/><BR/>The multilane interstates also had to pass under South Station's 7 tracks which carried over 40,000 commuters and 400 trains per day....a specially designed jack was constructed in order to support the ground and tracks to allow the excavation to take place below. Ground freezing was also implemented in order to help stabilize the surrounding ground as the tunnel was excavated. <B>This was the largest tunnelling project undertaken beneath railway lines anywhere in the world.</B><BR/><BR/>Other challenges included an existing subway tunnel crossing the path of the underground highway. In order to build slurry walls past this tunnel, it was necessary to dig beneath the tunnel and build an underground concrete bridge to support the tunnel's weight....</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-63410420682045389822008-08-08T09:52:00.000-07:002008-08-08T09:52:00.000-07:00One of the main problems with the Big Dig was that...One of the main problems with the Big Dig was that the Massachusetts government ordered PB to cut corners and costs to try and get the project completed without even more cost overruns. That led to bad glue being used in one of the tunnels, which in turn caused the tragic accident you mentioned.<BR/><BR/>I'm not here to defend PB broadly, I don't really care if they have the contract or not, but they have built many projects that are on budget and safe. People who point to the Big Dig as an example of what WILL happen are guilty of the worst kind of cherrypicking.Robert Cruickshankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-18796329865209253772008-08-08T09:14:00.000-07:002008-08-08T09:14:00.000-07:00Connect the dots.Rod Diridon draws a 6 figure sala...Connect the dots.<BR/><BR/>Rod Diridon draws a 6 figure salary from the Mineta Transportation Institute in San Jose.<BR/><BR/>Parsons Brinkerhoff is a major contributor to the institute.<BR/><BR/>Why was PB chosen as the prime contractor? <BR/><BR/>You connect the dots.<BR/><BR/>See pictures of the proposed bi-level Diridon station envisioned for San Jose. Looks like a couple of billions going to be dropped there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-85479904256265528372008-08-08T08:56:00.000-07:002008-08-08T08:56:00.000-07:00Spokker:In the long run, it is never good to lie o...Spokker:<BR/>In the long run, it is never good to lie or mislead voters.<BR/><BR/>This will see "big-dig" cost overruns. It is absolutely guaranteed. We have 40-years precedent of every other PB-managed rail project in California.<BR/><BR/>Fun fact: the "preliminary" engineering cost for BART-SJ by PB is now $170 million, for all of 22 miles of track along an existing railroad ROW. Anywhere else, $170m is enough to have actually built the friggin thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-69857889697173424202008-08-08T01:22:00.000-07:002008-08-08T01:22:00.000-07:00WHO cares aB3003023802843 WHAT everPROP 1 wiil win...WHO cares aB3003023802843 WHAT ever<BR/>PROP 1 wiil win..AS all polls have show..MORE stupid games..I want to see a Bulldozer!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-70866532030840313692008-08-07T23:18:00.000-07:002008-08-07T23:18:00.000-07:00Well I hope a ceiling tile doesn't fall on me at 2...Well I hope a ceiling tile doesn't fall on me at 220 mph.Spokkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03244298044953214810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-64225856833495391852008-08-07T22:21:00.000-07:002008-08-07T22:21:00.000-07:00The opposition already is making that point, spokk...The opposition already is making that point, spokker. I'm not inherently pro or anti-PB, but it is worth noting that HSR and the Big Dig are so totally different as to not be comparable.<BR/><BR/>To some people any big project is like the Big Dig, but that ignores the numerous successful HSR projects around the world. In fact, that's the key point - the Big Dig was a kind of project unprecedented not just in the US, but in Europe.<BR/><BR/>HSR, by contrast, is actually routine and pretty simple. It's not difficult to engineer grade crossings, or build track in rural areas, or drill rail tunnels. <BR/><BR/>I doubt that the public is going to make up its mind on Prop 1 or 1A or whatever it winds up being based on PB's involvement.Robert Cruickshankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-17999258915694696002008-08-07T19:23:00.000-07:002008-08-07T19:23:00.000-07:00Robert:you say:More importantly, AB 3034 required ...Robert:<BR/><BR/>you say:<BR/><BR/><B>More importantly, AB 3034 required a 2/3 vote to pass each house. 2/3 just so happens to be the amount needed to override a governor's veto. So if Arnold continues his hissy fit, AB 3034 can still become law anyway.</B><BR/><BR/>He can sit on it until the deadline passes and then veto it. It never becomes law no Prop 1AAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-52544909982828849332008-08-07T19:03:00.000-07:002008-08-07T19:03:00.000-07:00What's the rebuttal to the fact that Parsons Brinc...What's the rebuttal to the fact that Parsons Brinckerhoff are involved in this project? If I were the opposition I would hammer the shit out of that point and compare HSR to the Big Dig all day long.<BR/><BR/>So what's the deal?Spokkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03244298044953214810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-44632725789135507662008-08-07T17:14:00.000-07:002008-08-07T17:14:00.000-07:00It really does not look good tho.... how can Schwa...It really does not look good tho.... how can Schwarzenegger sign the legislation authorizing an ammendment to the bond measure when an argument about the budget mess is in part due to too much spending?<BR/><BR/>Many voters, and the press, could play that up big time and it could unfold as a PR mess-up. <BR/><BR/>Schwarzenegger's only argument could be that the measure is already slotted to go before voters and an ammendment, as passed in AB 3034, introduces improved mechanisms for better oversight. .. and trump private partnership as a way to minimize or reduce public tax dollars needed for the project. <BR/><BR/>And, leverage Federal funds for it too. yada yada yada.<BR/><BR/>If he does sign it... there is no turning back for him on a PR perspective... it would seem.Brandon in Californiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14796810137823230737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-58662514779017325622008-08-07T17:06:00.000-07:002008-08-07T17:06:00.000-07:00Florez's comments cited in Update #2 are incorrect...Florez's comments cited in Update #2 are incorrect. If the deadline passes without a signature, the original Prop 1 remains.<BR/><BR/>It takes a 2/3rds vote by the legislature to ammend it, or remove it, or replace it. Schwarzenegger would need to sign any measure to any of those affects.Brandon in Californiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14796810137823230737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-31785028687237749282008-08-07T16:09:00.000-07:002008-08-07T16:09:00.000-07:00"They should serve popcorn with this."Really. This..."They should serve popcorn with this."<BR/><BR/>Really. This is as exciting as transportation issues get, folks.<BR/><BR/>It's like watching a TV drama, except only six other greasy dudes are watching. WILL THEY OR WON'T THEY?! TUNE IN NEXT WEEK, NERDS!<BR/><BR/>Ahhh... rail drama. I love it.Spokkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03244298044953214810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-53137301720046975072008-08-07T15:58:00.000-07:002008-08-07T15:58:00.000-07:00Winston Churchill once put it succinctly:"You can ...Winston Churchill once put it succinctly:<BR/><BR/>"You can always rely on Americans to do the right thing - after they have exhausted all other options."<BR/><BR/>Tactically, Arnold is actually playing a clever game. He did want AB3034 passed, especially to get the funding section beefed up. Thanks to the 2/3 rule, he knows full well that it will not matter if he signs it or not: the Assembly will - grudgingly, of course - go along with the Senate's changes and the Senators are now committed. He's giving them a chance to look all senatorial and responsible by overriding his "temper tantrum".<BR/><BR/>The governor can still claim to support the spirit of AB3034, even pledge to campaign for it. After all, he's only refusing to sign it because he's being all gubernatorial and responsible about herding cats to get a budget passed. All shall have prizes!<BR/><BR/>They should serve popcorn with this.Rafaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05471957286484454765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-66540236267230822232008-08-07T15:45:00.000-07:002008-08-07T15:45:00.000-07:00You might be right, brandon. After all I don't thi...You might be right, brandon. After all I don't think the US Capitol has a smoking tent...Robert Cruickshankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-83151658732274219152008-08-07T15:43:00.000-07:002008-08-07T15:43:00.000-07:00^^^ Yes, my bad.Perhaps I was subconsciously thin...^^^ Yes, my bad.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps I was subconsciously thinking he was not qualified for being a US Senator and State Senator was closer to his 'skill set' ...sitting around and doing nothing as the Republican ones have been doing! Har har.<BR/><BR/>Well, no, I don't think I was thinking that. It was mistake.Brandon in Californiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14796810137823230737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-46868703456868062382008-08-07T15:29:00.000-07:002008-08-07T15:29:00.000-07:00You mean he wants to be a US Senator, brandon? I'v...You mean he wants to be a US Senator, brandon? I've heard those rumors too, but a switch would require DiFi to put the knife in Barbara Boxer's back. DiFi has few scruples but even I can't imagine her doing that.<BR/><BR/>bikerider, I am no defender of DiFi or of her husband's military contracting. But do you have any evidence that Richard Blum and/or URS are in a position to benefit financially?Robert Cruickshankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-62631647298491594132008-08-07T15:21:00.000-07:002008-08-07T15:21:00.000-07:00Of course Feinstein wants to build HSR. Her husban...Of course Feinstein wants to build HSR. Her husband's company (URS) is going to make a fortune off it.<BR/><BR/><I>Feinstein could also exercise leadership right now in resolving disputes between some environmentalists and the HSR project."</I><BR/><BR/>And what would she gain from that? Picking the more environmentally benign route would hurt URS bottom line.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-56591138366969605142008-08-07T15:20:00.000-07:002008-08-07T15:20:00.000-07:00Perhaps she has eyed the governorship for quite aw...Perhaps she has eyed the governorship for quite awhile and forecasted possible conflict if she supported HSR as a Senator... <BR/><BR/>...Allocated/earmarking, or what-not billions of dollars for a State system may appear to some as a buyoff for votes.<BR/><BR/>I thik the politically safe thing to do in such an instance would be to treat it would be respectful, but don't go near it.<BR/><BR/>On a related matter... Scwarzenegger has expressed interest in being a State Senator. And, we know he supports public infrastructure too. Perhaps Feinstein and he have a strategy to essentially swap positions...Brandon in Californiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14796810137823230737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-82270002367873527142008-08-07T14:44:00.000-07:002008-08-07T14:44:00.000-07:00Heh. I had a post on that over at Calitics. I disa...Heh. I had a post on that <A HREF="http://www.calitics.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=6599" REL="nofollow">over at Calitics</A>. I disagree that the numbers look good, but here's my thoughts on her HSR stuff:<BR/><BR/>"To take one example, high speed rail. Feinstein doesn't have to wait to be governor to help build it. One of the persistent criticisms of the HSR project is that federal funding isn't guaranteed, so we're taking a risk by passing the Prop 1 bond. Feinstein could have helped deliver federal money to the HSR project, even a small amount as a sign of future commitments, to defuse that argument. Harry Reid got $45 million to study a maglev train that will probably never be built - surely Feinstein could have done the same. Feinstein could also exercise leadership right now in resolving disputes between some environmentalists and the HSR project."<BR/><BR/>There's nothing at all stopping her from being the Senator that got HSR built...Robert Cruickshankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-28583972711104864202008-08-07T14:24:00.000-07:002008-08-07T14:24:00.000-07:00There is other big news today too.Senator Feinstei...There is other big news today too.<BR/><BR/>Senator Feinstein, age 77, is being talked about running for California State Govenor in 2010, when Schwarzenneger is termed out. <BR/><BR/>An LA Times article largely speaks to her showing greater interest in State issues of late, and polling numbers comparing her to other potential candidates.<BR/><BR/>The numbers look over-whelmingly good for her.<BR/><BR/>Among the points of interest is her the States infrastructure conditions. <BR/><BR/>And this nugget of a quote:<BR/><BR/>""Think back, there's been no major water infrastructure built since Pat Brown was governor. Everything's drying up. . . . California sort of rests on its laurels. . . . You've got to move people, you've got to move goods. . . . <B>I'd love to be the governor who builds the high-speed rail.</B>""Brandon in Californiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14796810137823230737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-37617055533776986302008-08-07T13:17:00.000-07:002008-08-07T13:17:00.000-07:00Yeah, that's definitely one way of looking at it. ...Yeah, that's definitely one way of looking at it. I felt like being charitable, but we're still going to have to watch this closely to ensure everything goes right.Robert Cruickshankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-53934195471695924342008-08-07T13:02:00.000-07:002008-08-07T13:02:00.000-07:00I love it..Asburn and the rest passed this because...I love it..Asburn and the rest passed this because they want to force Arnold to to the dirty work..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com