tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post8634255518793411784..comments2023-10-30T09:03:07.163-07:00Comments on California High Speed Rail Blog: Obama's HSR Plan (Mostly) Lauded - But How To Pay For It?Robert Cruickshankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06906581839066570472noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-6614533865858840652009-04-23T00:16:00.000-07:002009-04-23T00:16:00.000-07:00@anon - laugh it you like but the tickets I sell e...@anon - laugh it you like but the tickets I sell en masse to young folks everyday tell a different story. They are so on board with this. they have a word for folks like you "dinosaur"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-25598733660711746732009-04-23T00:13:00.000-07:002009-04-23T00:13:00.000-07:00well aon im glad you are getting your jollies, bu...well aon im glad you are getting your jollies, but I hate to tell you - as a railroad employee, who sells train tickets to young people en masse everyday, they are on board with the whole shebang and will be leaving you in their dust. So believe what you want, but the numbers say other wise. They ahve a word for folks like you " dinosaur"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-61707286815949727802009-04-22T14:34:00.000-07:002009-04-22T14:34:00.000-07:00Traveling on roads in your own vehicle is so prehi...Traveling on roads in your own vehicle is so prehistoric. The internal combustion engine is just a new way of powering a carriage.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-30957270060983029952009-04-22T08:22:00.000-07:002009-04-22T08:22:00.000-07:00Traveling on a fixed track is 19th century. HSR is...Traveling on a fixed track is 19th century. HSR is the equivalent of injecting steroids in a horse to make a buggy and carriage go faster.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-80382816699510573022009-04-21T19:23:00.000-07:002009-04-21T19:23:00.000-07:00If HSR is 19th century, then cars are prehistoric....If HSR is 19th century, then cars are prehistoric. Roads aren't a new invention.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-85586262252684771742009-04-21T16:43:00.000-07:002009-04-21T16:43:00.000-07:00Laughing at jim (again and again)
"The old was of...Laughing at jim (again and again)<br /><br />"The old was of thinking was soundly defeated and a new generation is moving the country forward into the 21st century. Get on board or get out of the way."<br /><br />Returning to a 19th century of travel isn't considered moving forward to the 21st. Laughing at you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-1717194462158487602009-04-20T12:50:00.000-07:002009-04-20T12:50:00.000-07:00South of New York, the catenary is a bigger proble...South of New York, the catenary is a bigger problem than the track geometry - it limits the trains to 135 mph. In most of New Jersey the tracks are very straight, and even in Pennsylvania they're reasonable. The only sharp curve between Newark and Philadelphia is near Metuchen, where it's impossible to do anything without Chinese-style destruction of houses. Between Philly and Baltimore the ROW is only somewhat less straight, but a) it's straighter than I-95, and b) there's enough room for straightening most curves. Really the only section between New York and Washington where the tracks are a problem is near Baltimore, where the trains slow to 30 mph.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-85417397353443724342009-04-20T05:54:00.000-07:002009-04-20T05:54:00.000-07:00I-95 is a feasible bypass alignment from New Haven...<EM>I-95 is a feasible bypass alignment from New Haven to Old Saybrook,. . . For example, it has a sharp curve between Old Saybrook and New London. In many cases, it's better to round the corner by running elevated over an arterial road, such as Route 156 for the curve east of Niantic. </EM>I haven't looked at it hard. Yes there is a sharp curve north of Old Saybrook - at the interchange with I395? The land is relatively undeveloped up there. They could either bypass the curve - which means an expensive bridge or tunnel crossing the Niantic estuary. Maybe they could swing out to the north and curve back in. Or since it's only a few miles from New London, go slower between Old Saybrook and New London. I don't see an El over 156, too suburban. <br /><br /><EM>maybe for a few more curves like Darien-Norwalk and Greenwich-Stamford</EM> <br /><br />West/South of New Haven much of the Turnpike is elevated already with nothing more than Jersey barrier between the opposing lanes. I didn't even consider it. In places it seems that you could reach out and touch the buildings across the shoulder. New Haven to New Brunswick it's not going to be politically feasible to do much. Probably not economically feasible either. For instance the new bridges over the Hackensack are possible because it's mostly swamp out there. Try to straighten the infamous curve south of Elizabeth ...there'd be a lot more to be done.Adirondackernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-42836778829571558182009-04-20T00:12:00.000-07:002009-04-20T00:12:00.000-07:00Adirondacker: I-95 is a feasible bypass alignment ...Adirondacker: I-95 is a feasible bypass alignment from New Haven to Old Saybrook, and maybe for a few more curves like Darien-Norwalk and Greenwich-Stamford, but by and large it's hardly better than the NEC. For example, it has a sharp curve between Old Saybrook and New London. In many cases, it's better to round the corner by running elevated over an arterial road, such as Route 156 for the curve east of Niantic.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-77046561478436208372009-04-19T21:13:00.000-07:002009-04-19T21:13:00.000-07:00Jimmy, the whole thing is pretty retarded, but tra...Jimmy, the whole thing is pretty retarded, but transit has to take what it can get.Spokkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03244298044953214810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-43746694183882572852009-04-19T20:00:00.000-07:002009-04-19T20:00:00.000-07:00It's much more useful to spend the money on constr...<EM>It's much more useful to spend the money on constructing curve bypasses in Connecticut, essentially letting commuter and regional trains take the curves while the Acela can run on straight track and overtake them.</EM> <br /><br /><br />Alon, when you have an idle moment or two go look at the ROW for the Connecticut Turnpike between New London and New Haven and the NEC with all it's curvy bits that alternate with grade crossings and balky drawbridges. That's one place where putting the expresses along the ROW for I95 might make sense. The Turnpike and the NEC cross over each other just east of New Haven and again in New London. Not much of median to work with though.Adirondackernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-87325961048755494252009-04-19T18:34:00.000-07:002009-04-19T18:34:00.000-07:00When gas jumped in price last year, several mass t...When gas jumped in price last year, several mass transit systems were forced to cut service- in a time of mass exodus to transit- because there was not enough gas tax revenue to support them! How ironic is this going to get! This makes transit depend on gasoline being sold, and cars driving around; this is an unsustainable and oxymoronic idea. Stable funding? I think not.Jimmy Pittmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04389920156297917544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-56982125355928877552009-04-19T17:58:00.000-07:002009-04-19T17:58:00.000-07:00Get Real: if your kids can't get to school on thei...Get Real: if your kids can't get to school on their own, then either you're a terrible parent, or you need to move out of whichever auto-only suburb you live in.<br /><br />Rafael: curve radii on I-95 are way too tight for any kind of HSR - in some areas they're even tighter than the NEC's. It's much more useful to spend the money on constructing curve bypasses in Connecticut, essentially letting commuter and regional trains take the curves while the Acela can run on straight track and overtake them.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-45778986362717418602009-04-19T12:38:00.000-07:002009-04-19T12:38:00.000-07:00@ The Way I see it:
That editorial is cherry-pi...@ The Way I see it: <br /><br />That editorial is cherry-picking its facts. Sure HSR is subsidized in Europe. Explain to me how subsidies for HSR are a bad thing. Then explain to me how subsidies for HSR are different than subsidies for highways and air travel. <B>All transport systems are subsidized</B>. So the Acela isn't as fast as it could be. True enough. But that doesn't mean that a) the Acela isn't enormously popular (it is) and b) we can't do HSR properly here in California (yes we can.) <br /><br />The era of cheap petroleum is over. The alternative to not building HSR is not doing nothing. Grumbling about how expensive HSR is doesn't mean the alternatives are cheaper.Biancahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00660718116529125977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-82195406269798105002009-04-19T11:49:00.000-07:002009-04-19T11:49:00.000-07:00@theway I sese it- that article and the responses...@theway I sese it- that article and the responses are just a bunch of dinosaurs bemoaning their slow death. The old was of thinking was soundly defeated and a new generation is moving the country forward into the 21st century. Get on board or get out of the way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-25399974392610318872009-04-19T11:46:00.000-07:002009-04-19T11:46:00.000-07:00Most states in the midwest and east use toll roads...Most states in the midwest and east use toll roads. and the toll roads implemented recently in So Cal are very nice as well. If nothing else, 1-5 should be a toll road from border to border. 10 cents a mile. In Addition to that... all roads entering Cali from bordering states should charge 20 bucks per car to cross the border in to cali.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-16412724195369877482009-04-19T11:23:00.000-07:002009-04-19T11:23:00.000-07:00In the US, maglev may one day be appropriate for t...<EM>In the US, maglev may one day be appropriate for the densely populated Acela corridor, e.g. on aerials in the freeway medians. That's about it.</EM>I assume you are talking about the I95 Corridor. The median between New Haven and New Brunswick is mostly as wide as the Jersey Barrier that defines the median. Widens out here and there and there are places where there's plenty of space .... usually because the roadway is elevated high above the swamp. So you are talking about tearing down the elevated so you can make one that is strong enough to carry trains or digging a tunnel... from New Haven to New Brunswick. This is one of the easiest to understand from a Google street view, <A HREF="http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.845246,-73.914656&spn=0,359.998273&t=k&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.845246,-73.914776&panoid=uVHx2RxWMvHGBtAWgIyczg&cbp=12,112.4751977675452,,0,5" REL="nofollow"> Jerome ave and the Cross Bronx Expressway </A>The median is a Jersey Barrier. Difficult but not impossible to insert a elevated structure there. Can't do it one level up because Jerome Avenue is in the way. Can't do it two levels up because the Jerome Avenue El ( the 4 train ) is in the way. I guess you could have a HSR line teetering over the El but it's gonna be very very expensive. <br /><br />Threading trains through the interchange for the Bruckner, Cross Bronx and the Hutchinson River Parkway - not to mention the river - would be interesting. Or over the underpasses and overpasses that occur every few blocks. Or the interchanges with the Deegan ( I87 ) and the Henry Hudson Parkway, E178st etc. That puts the maglev station on E178st, a bit far from Midtown. Same kind of problems around Washington DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Newark, New Haven, New London, Providence and Boston. <br /><br />Over or under the NEC might make more sense. <br /><br /><EM>would mean the tolls would have to be substantial, which would drive cars off the road </EM> <br /><br /><br />Median toll on roads in the Northeast and Midwest is 5 cents a mile. Yes some people get on the US highway or the Interstate alternates to go places but the toll roads do a very brisk business. This is just my opinion but if have a choice between the toll road and the one maintained by the state DOT, I take the toll road. They are faster and better maintained.Adirondackernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-8680017318114469272009-04-19T10:47:00.000-07:002009-04-19T10:47:00.000-07:00As the title of this thread say:
(Mostly) Lauded...As the title of this thread say:<br /><br /><B> (Mostly) Lauded </B>Now here is an article <br /> <A HREF="http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view.bg?articleid=1166502&srvc=home&position=rated" REL="nofollow">High-speed train to Nowheresville</A>which really has it right.The Way I see itnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-64273090802111859052009-04-19T06:47:00.000-07:002009-04-19T06:47:00.000-07:00jim said...
"... Toll roads. all state highways an...jim said...<br />"<I>... Toll roads. all state highways and intersates whould have tolls. The tolls raised on each road should not go into a general fund but should be slated for that particular road only. So those roads with the most traffic generate the most money and get the most repairs. ... The roads would be in much better shape. Then use the gas tax for transit.</I>"<br /><br />The roads would probably not be in better shape ... the loss of the massive cross subsidy from urban driving on city streets, in particular, would mean the tolls would have to be substantial, which would drive cars off the road, and then for much of the country there would be a lose-lose between tolls too low to pay for the damage cause by the traffic still on the Interstate or tolls too high to allow much traffic on the Interstate, generating too little revenue to keep up with weathering and other depreciation over time.<br /><br />Establishing the Interstate Highway System based on cross-subsidies from urban driving implies building up a system beyond the point of being able to maintain itself, which is where we are already at. Add in oil price shocks, and we may see in some twenty or thirty years some HSR right of ways obtained by handing over Interstate Highway lanes that states can no longer afford to maintain ... especially for football field wide "outerbelts" around major Sundbelt cities.BruceMcFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08502035881761277885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-41725804839573714672009-04-19T04:10:00.000-07:002009-04-19T04:10:00.000-07:00@ Elliott -
conventional steel wheels bullet trai...@ Elliott -<br /><br />conventional steel wheels bullet trains aren't outdated at all. Countries all over the world are investing heavily in new track and rolling stock as we speak: California, Spain, China, France, Holland, Italy, Japan, Morocco, Russia, Vietnam, Israel, Argentina, Sweden and the UK (if the Conservatives get elected). And I probably forgot a few.<br /><br />China, the only country with maglev in commercial operation, has decided against building more of it.<br /><br />Japan's JR Central will now go ahead with building the $44 billion Chuo shinkansen between Tokyo and Osaka, but 60% of the line will have to be underground in spite of the fact that maglev can climb 8% gradients. The only reason they can afford such a massive investment is because their conventional steel wheels HSR services are hugely profitable.<br /><br />Conclusion: maglev only makes sense between very large cities that have lots of connecting transit and an established culture of traveling by rail. Because of the extremely high infrastructure cost (typically 2-3x that of steel wheels bullet trains), you need to run a boatload of trains at high capacity utilization.<br /><br />In the US, maglev may one day be appropriate for the densely populated Acela corridor, e.g. on aerials in the freeway medians. That's about it.<br /><br />The hard part is getting in and out of city centers, since maglev trains cannot leverage legacy steel wheels tracks already going there. It's possible the environmental issues of running maglev on aerials above city streets will prove manageable because the technology is quiet at moderate speeds.<br /><br />Southern California had considered maglev for freight, with stable levitation based on Halbach arrays of permanent magnets, but it has since dropped the idea. Passenger maglev was also nixed as soon as voters approved steel wheels bullet trains.<br /><br />Sen. Harry Reid still has maglev pipe dreams because he thinks the technology is more "Vegas" but I suspect Sin City will end up a new destination on the California corridor, which would mean a steel wheels spur off the steel wheels network, with trains running at max. 220mph through the desert.Rafaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05471957286484454765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-38421668036848792542009-04-19T01:13:00.000-07:002009-04-19T01:13:00.000-07:00The new plan must include a maglev design that mir...The new plan must include a maglev design that mirrors our existing Interstate Highway System. The whole continental U.S. must be linked by one uniform, lightning-fast network. If the new high-speed rail plan remains fragmented (and encompasses outdated, traditional high-speed technology), America will never realize the expected benefits of a new system. The investment will only pay off if the job is done right. See this blog:<br /><br />http://obamaformaglev.blogspot.com/Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08473208762386037771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-23203876352232399142009-04-18T22:21:00.000-07:002009-04-18T22:21:00.000-07:00I like LA need to get down there more often. Can...I like LA need to get down there more often. Can't wait to get the HSR trains running. I can go down for the day and be home by midnight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-27277201172255523572009-04-18T22:14:00.000-07:002009-04-18T22:14:00.000-07:00Let me tell you about my Surfliner trip tonight. T...Let me tell you about my Surfliner trip tonight. There was a beautiful sunset and as we departed Los Angeles toward the south the downtown skyline looked incredible. That's not something you can really appreciate when you're a solo driver. Some of the best sunsets I've ever seen were while I was on a train.<br /><br />And all the while I'm listening to my MP3 player and hearing, <I>Goin' up to the spirit in the sky<br />That's where I'm gonna go when I die<br />When I die and they lay me to rest<br />Gonna go to the place that's the best</I>Trains are the best. Fuck suburbia and fuck your kid's soccer practice.Spokkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03244298044953214810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-90131355098214687952009-04-18T22:09:00.000-07:002009-04-18T22:09:00.000-07:00peoplepeopleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4263762637946594105.post-23857482732824811482009-04-18T22:08:00.000-07:002009-04-18T22:08:00.000-07:00lots of pole in sf still have big dogs. and some ...lots of pole in sf still have big dogs. and some folks will still in the mountains and rural areas. The problem with suburbs is that they turn into ghettos after 20 years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com